Plumbing and house constuction.

[anything I don't mind]

In some countries they put the water tank in the roof and have the overflow coming out the roof level. I was talking to this guy about it and i said that is why there is enough pressure to have a shower without a pump but he said that there is not enough pressure to get the water to fill the tank which i said was untrue, because the overflow would fill the tank, am i correct ?

In other countries we do not need the water pump showers we just have a mavity based shower. The water comes from the tank in the attic. The only problem is that you use the water in the tank faster than it can refill and sometimes if you use the shower for 1 hour+ then you have to wait for the tank to fill up. Which can take 30 mins.

Another thing i have noticed is that they don't use concrete to set the floors, it looks like they use wood is that correct? All the houses i have lived in, in this country have had noisy wooden floors on the first floor, even the stair cases were made out of wood. In other countries they use concrete to set the floor and you can jump up and down on the first floor and no one hears it down stairs. Why is this not done in this country, any ideas?

 

[alx]

Because you use hot water for a shower, and the hot water tank is often on the same level as the bathroom/shower (ie in an airing cupboard and not in the attic) - so you will poor pressure without a pump.

Other countries (ie southern europe) sometimes have the hot water tank on the roof and use the sun to heat it so don't need a pump.

 

[Fenris]

In other countries we do not need the water pump showers we just have a mavity based shower.

Same reason we no longer have out houses. There are just better ways of doing it.

 

[Bill101]

Because you use hot water for a shower, and the hot water tank is often on the same level as the bathroom/shower (ie in an airing cupboard and not in the attic) - so you will poor pressure without a pump.

Other countries (ie southern europe) sometimes have the hot water tank on the roof and use the sun to heat it so don't need a pump.

But the hot water tank is fed from the tank in the loft therefore it has the same pressure as the cold water.
We have water towers at the highest points in the city, so there is always enough water pressure to get cold water into the loft tank, this is for older houses with immersion heaters or no combi boilers

 

[anything I don't mind]

So do you think it is a "step backwards" to have the hot water tank not in the attic, this means that you have to use one of these to get enough pressure to shower with and even then the pressure is not that great. Shouldn't all new houses be built with hot water tanks in the attic ?

I don't think (in other countries) they have cold water tanks they just get the water straight from the water grid. The water tower makes sense because we had a water tower in the area at the highest point, on a hill.

Surely doing plumbing in such a way that does not require electric pump showers would be the better way?

 

[Aod]

People here in the UK seem to like the high-pressure-low-volume they get out of power-showers.

In Africa we showered with water from mains-pressure, that was the norm.

As for building the floors of houses out of Wood here in the UK, it's done that way because it's traditional.

 

[anything I don't mind]

I find that the pressure from the power showers are weak compared to pressure from the water tank in the roof. But maybe i have cheap power showers in the (cheap) rental properties that i have been in.

Traditional ? I thought there might be more of an economic reason or utility reason.

 

[Kol]

It's all about MegaFlo or other similar products. Mains pressure, scalding hot and plenty of water.

 

[alx]

But the hot water tank is fed from the tank in the loft therefore it has the same pressure as the cold water.
We have water towers at the highest points in the city, so there is always enough water pressure to get cold water into the loft tank, this is for older houses with immersion heaters or no combi boilers

I don't think this is true.

I believe the system isn't a closed system, ie air needs to be able to enter/exit from the hot water tank as it fills up and empties, therefore the cold water tank pressure won't effect the pressure of the hot water tank. The only effect on pressure would be from the water level in the hot water tank.

Feel free to correct me on the closed/open system point though.

 

[Morgoth]

My shower is mavity feed. Works great.

 

[sigma]

My shower is mavity feed. Works great.

OP doesn't believe in mavity.

 

[Bill101]

I don't think this is true.

I believe the system isn't a closed system, ie air needs to be able to enter/exit from the hot water tank as it fills up and empties, therefore the cold water tank pressure won't effect the pressure of the hot water tank. The only effect on pressure would be from the water level in the hot water tank.

Feel free to correct me on the closed/open system point though.

I think you can get both open and closed (pressurised ) systems. No air should get into the hot water tank otherwise your shower would splutter, also there used to be a danger when draining a system of the hot water tank crumpling due to a vacuum trying to form. This is how I see the system working, Due to water always wanting to find its own level then the pressure comes from the cold water tank in the loft.
As long as the bottom of the cold water tank is at least 3 foot (or one metre) above the shower head then there should be enough pressure for a decent shower

 

[john_s]

Another thing i have noticed is that they don't use concrete to set the floors, it looks like they use wood is that correct? All the houses i have lived in, in this country have had noisy wooden floors on the first floor, even the stair cases were made out of wood. In other countries they use concrete to set the floor and you can jump up and down on the first floor and no one hears it down stairs. Why is this not done in this country, any ideas?

Cost and ease of installation (which in turn also saves money).

You do sometimes see beam and block floors used for upper floors in houses, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Aod]

Traditional ? I thought there might be more of an economic reason or utility reason.

Concrete's actually cheaper than Wood as a building material, especially if it's pre-cast rather than cast-in-place

 

[a1ex2001]

I think you maybe confusing 'power showers' with 'electric showers' they are two different things if you using a proper pumped power shower there is still a hot water tank involved and it should have enough pressure to spray water the length of your garden. If you are using the much more common electric shower then no hot water tank is involved the shower unit heats water on demand but due to the limited abilty to heat water pressure is pretty low.

I have a shower fed straight off my combi boiler and the pressure is fantastic.

This country has moved rapidly away from hot water tanks towards on demand combi boilers as this was seen as more efficient, we will shortly start going back to hot water tanks probably in the loft as you suggest as these are much easier to heat in a green way using solar or wind energy.

 

[alx]

I think you can get both open and closed (pressurised ) systems. No air should get into the hot water tank otherwise your shower would splutter, also there used to be a danger when draining a system of the hot water tank crumpling due to a vacuum trying to form. This is how I see the system working, Due to water always wanting to find its own level then the pressure comes from the cold water tank in the loft.
As long as the bottom of the cold water tank is at least 3 foot (or one metre) above the shower head then there should be enough pressure for a decent shower

According to this: http://www.plumbingpages.com/featurepages/HWopenvented.cfm

the pressure doesn't so much come from the header/cold water tank due to the vent pipe (so not a closed system), but actually from the heating of the water causing it to expand. As this usually doesn't provide a great deal of pressure, it's probably why a lot of showers have pumps.

Electric showers are the worst because they litterally just heat the cold water, so usually have a **** all pressure.

 

[anything I don't mind]

But how does the water get up to the boiler in the attic. Will an over flow coming out at roof level and the pressure from the water grid be sufficient in filling the water tank? As someone said, does that kind of setup require a water tower that is in effect higher than the tank in your roof?

Also how do they do these sort of setups in high rise buildings, say 15 floors up with a water tank on the roof. Do they use a pump to get the water up. I can't imagine a over flow forcing water up 15 floors

 

[bitslice]

But how does the water get up to the boiler in the attic. Will an over flow coming out at roof level and the pressure from the water grid be sufficient in filling the water tank? As someone said, does that kind of setup require a water tower that is in effect higher than the tank in your roof?

Why do you keep talking about the overflow pipe as if it has something to do with filling a tank? It's to let excess water escape in a fault condition

Yes, mains water pressure will fill a tank in a two storey house,

I think (don't quote me, google yourself) 1 bar equals around 10m of head, and the supply will average around 3-4 bar

 

[Slyman]

http://www.plumbingpages.com/featurepages/SGravity.cfm

Explains all

 

[Yas786]

It's all about MegaFlo or other similar products. Mains pressure, scalding hot and plenty of water.

Yep i had a megaflo cylinder put in a few mths ago and damn it makes a difference...hot water all the time even if all the taps are on...before the megaflo you couldnt have a hot shower if any of the taps were on but now its bliss...i just need to get the outside pipe thats coming into the house changed for a bigger one because my water pressure isnt that great at the moment....hopefully get it done in the next few weeks.