Earthquake in Japan....9.0...ouch!

[PiKe]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger-counter-tokyo

The joys of the interwebs, although there is no way of knowing if this is actually in Tokyo

What's a 'normal' level?

 

[Jonnycoupe]

if the core is intact, how can heavy metals be released? the gas that is being released is the cooling liquid

The cooling system is compromised and the fuel rods keep being exposed such they that will get damages. Its possible for the metals to be present in the fluid, when it evaporates to steam its feasible some material is suspensed in the steam and goes where the steam does. This is why the venting had levels of Iodine and Caesium present and hence measured radiation increase as the isotopes are active which will themselves act as fuel in the core; both are fissile products of Uranium.

 

[Rroff]

What's a 'normal' level?

10 - 13 ish isn't a problem, not sure what level would be but probably a lot higher than 13 i.e. in an aircraft it can easily be ~400 at cruising altitude, so probably something like 3000+ is of concern.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Hmm, its being suggested that there were 5 fire pumps pouring water into the reactor, however 4 aren't working, feared damaged by the blowout at reactor 3, which is really just sod's law.

Then the one pump ran out of fuel but got working again, they said they got the water up to 30cm in the lower parts of the fuel rods. Are they saying they didn't manage to get water up covering the fuel rods just partially cover them, or 30cm above, sometimes translation seems to be confusing things.

Again its not clear, but its also sounding like there are only 5 fire pumps there, and they are being spread across the cores, at the moment only one is working and thats being prioritised on core 2, as its the worst, and they have begun venting that core aswell to prevent pressure getting dangerously high.

Starting to sound very bad if they can't get more fire pumps in asap.

THey are thinking about drilling a hole to prevent another explosion and let Hydrogen vent rather than build up.

 

[VFM Addict]

As someone said on the radio yesterday, trying to evaluate the effect on the Japanese economy is like trying to evaluate how tangled is a bath full of spaghetti.

A company that manufactures widgets in an untouched part of Japan may still be effectively put out of business by the tsunami for many reasons. Their main customer may have been wiped out by the tsunami or a group of clients that owe them substantial sums of money for goods supplied may have been wiped out or their raw materials or exports may all go through the port of Sendai.

It will take three to six months to even begin to get a reasonable picture of the likely impact.

 

[drunkenmaster]

As someone said on the radio yesterday, trying to evaluate the effect on the Japanese economy is like trying to evaluate how tangled is a bath full of spaghetti.

A company that manufactures widgets in an untouched part of Japan may still be effectively put out of business by the tsunami for many reasons. Their main customer may have been wiped out by the tsunami or a group of clients that owe them substantial sums of money for goods supplied may have been wiped out or their raw materials or exports may all go through the port of Sendai.

It will take three to six months to even begin to get a reasonable picture of the likely impact.

Not really, disaster often sparks economic growth after a downturn.

The Kobe earthquake caused a downturn in the economy for half the year after, and the half year after that was better than had been predicted before the earthquake, why, rebuilding. As horrible as it is, SO much work needs doing now that didn't need doing before, more jobs, more work, more wages, less unemployment, etc, etc.

Different world market and economy compared to then though and, they've sunk money into building nuclear power plants that, well, I wouldn't be surprised if those plans are scrapped, considering they were building two more alongside the failing reactors. Energy could be the reason Japan has huge economic problems in the future.

 

[Cosimo]

 

[Participant]

Not really, disaster often sparks economic growth after a downturn.

The Kobe earthquake caused a downturn in the economy for half the year after, and the half year after that was better than had been predicted before the earthquake, why, rebuilding. As horrible as it is, SO much work needs doing now that didn't need doing before, more jobs, more work, more wages, less unemployment, etc, etc.

But there's no export GDP in that, really, only expenditure, so the country as a whole is poorer as a result of this disaster.

Levels of unemployed aren't the only indicator of economic health, otherwise 1930s Russia would have been the model economy .

 

[bam0]

Not really, disaster often sparks economic growth after a downturn.

The Kobe earthquake caused a downturn in the economy for half the year after, and the half year after that was better than had been predicted before the earthquake, why, rebuilding. As horrible as it is, SO much work needs doing now that didn't need doing before, more jobs, more work, more wages, less unemployment, etc, etc.

Different world market and economy compared to then though and, they've sunk money into building nuclear power plants that, well, I wouldn't be surprised if those plans are scrapped, considering they were building two more alongside the failing reactors. Energy could be the reason Japan has huge economic problems in the future.

Broken Window Fallacy.

 

[Muzy]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger-counter-tokyo

The joys of the interwebs, although there is no way of knowing if this is actually in Tokyo

Counts per minute (cpm) is a measure of radioactivity. It is the number of atoms in a given quantity of radioactive material that are detected to have decayed in one minute. Disintegrations per minute (dpm) is also a measure of radioactivity. It is the number of atoms in a given quantity of radioactive material that decay in one minute. Dpm is similar to cpm, however the efficiency of the radiation detector (e.g. scintillation counter) must be accounted for when analysing data in cpm. Dpm is the number of atoms that have decayed, not the number of atoms that have been measured as decayed. Dpm is commonly used as a measure of radioactive contamination.

* One becquerel (Bq) is equal to one disintegration per second, or 60 dpm.
* One curie (Ci) is equal to 3.7 x 10 10 Bq or dps, which is equal to 2.22 x 1012 dpm.

So what does that mean ? bad on human health ? 12.98

 

[PiKe]

So what does that mean ? bad on human health ? 12.98

I've done some reading and its a normal background radiation level.

 

[dave1983]

Wheres the handbags

 

[Evilsod]

Now thats what I call organised..... Who recalls what what the lines looked like in Haiti?

The real question is why does it look like they put tracing paper over the Thames...

 

[Streeteh]

The real question is why does it look like they put tracing paper over the Thames...

I imagine it's to prevent people attempting to queue jump, if the line zig zagged across itself like in theme parks i imagine people would be more likely to attempt to queue jump... like in theme parks.

 

[SkScotchegg]

It sounds as if there has been leaks of radiation and seems plausible that some people have higher radiation levels then normal so I'm wondering if its plausible that the government of japan and the energy companies might try create a cover up in order to keep peoples trust in nuclear power.

I can see 10 years from now a lot of people being sick because of this incident.

I'm not talking about conspiracy theories, but just seems like something that happens in this world? Do you think this is possible?

 

[Cosimo]

This is the latest update on the somewhat muddled view we are getting here:

Crisis continues at Fukushima nuclear plant as fuel rods exposed again
TOKYO, March 15, Kyodo


A crisis continued Tuesday at the troubled No. 2 reactor at the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, as fuel rods became fully exposed again after workers recovered water levels to cover half of them in a bid to prevent overheating.

The plant operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co., said a steam vent of the pressure container of the reactor that houses the rods was closed for some reason, raising fears that its core will melt at a faster pace. It said it will try to open the vent to resume the operation to inject seawater to cool down the reactor.

Despite its earlier attempt to do so, however, water levels sharply fell and the fuel rods were fully exposed for about 140 minutes in the evening as a fire pump to pour cooling seawater into the reactor ran out of fuel and it took time for workers to release steam from the reactor to lower its pressure, the government's nuclear safety agency said.

Water levels in the No. 2 reactor later went up to cover more than half of the rods that measure about 4 meters at one point. TEPCO began pouring coolant water into the reactor after the cooling functions failed earlier in the day.

Prior to the second full exposure of the rods around 11 p.m., radiation was detected at 9:37 p.m. at a level twice the maximum seen so far -- 3,130 micro sievert per hour, according to TEPCO.

To ease concerns, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said he believes the problem at the plant ''will not develop into a situation similar to the (1986 accident at the atomic power reactor in) Chernobyl'' in the Soviet Union, even in the worst case.

Officials of the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency also said the worst case scenario will be less destructive than the Chernobyl incident, as TEPCO has depressurized the reactors by releasing radioactive steam.

The utility said a hydrogen explosion at the nearby No. 3 reactor that occurred Monday morning may have caused a glitch in the cooling system of the No. 2 reactor.

Similar cooling down efforts have been made at the plant's No. 1 and No. 3 reactors and explosions occurred at both reactors in the process, blowing away the roofs and walls of the buildings that house the reactors.

Edano denied the possibility that the No. 2 reactor will follow the same path, as the blast at the No. 3 reactor opened a hole in the wall of the building that houses the No. 2 reactor. Hydrogen will be released from the hole, he said.

The blast earlier in the day injured 11 people but the reactor's containment vessel was not damaged, with the government dismissing the possibility of a large amount of radioactive material being dispersed, as radiation levels did not jump after the explosion.

TEPCO said seven workers at the site and four members of the Self-Defense Forces were injured.

Since the magnitude 9.0 quake hit northeastern Japan last Friday, some reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 plant have lost their cooling functions, leading to brief rises in radiation levels.

As a result, the cores of the No. 1 and No. 3 reactors have partially melted.

The government ordered residents within a 20-kilometer radius of the plant to evacuate Saturday in the wake of the initial blast at the plant's No. 1 reactor. A total of 354 people are still attempting to leave the area, according to the nuclear agency.

The agency ruled out the possibility of broadening the area subject to the evacuation order for now.

==Kyodo

and Japan has asked for nuclear experts to be sent:

U.N. nuclear watchdog to send team of experts to Japan
VIENNA, March 14, Kyodo


The head of the International Atomic Energy Agency said Monday Japan has asked the U.N. nuclear watchdog to provide experts in the wake of a series of incidents at a major nuclear power plant hit by Friday's massive earthquake in Japan.

IAEA Director General Yukiya Amano said the IAEA is in discussions with Japan on the details, according to a statement released by the agency.

He was informing member states about the request in a technical briefing about nuclear safety aspects of the situation in Japan.

==Kyodo

 

[clv101]

It sounds as if there has been leaks of radiation and seems plausible that some people have higher radiation levels then normal so I'm wondering if its plausible that the government of japan and the energy companies might try create a cover up in order to keep peoples trust in nuclear power.

I can see 10 years from now a lot of people being sick because of this incident.

I'm not talking about conspiracy theories, but just seems like something that happens in this world? Do you think this is possible?

Possible, but unlikely. It's hard to hide large radiation leaks!

 

[leaskovski]

It sounds as if there has been leaks of radiation and seems plausible that some people have higher radiation levels then normal so I'm wondering if its plausible that the government of japan and the energy companies might try create a cover up in order to keep peoples trust in nuclear power.

I can see 10 years from now a lot of people being sick because of this incident.

I'm not talking about conspiracy theories, but just seems like something that happens in this world? Do you think this is possible?

What like lots of people being really really sick 10 years later because of chernobyl?

Not likely

 

[AGD]

It sounds as if there has been leaks of radiation and seems plausible that some people have higher radiation levels then normal so I'm wondering if its plausible that the government of japan and the energy companies might try create a cover up in order to keep peoples trust in nuclear power.

I can see 10 years from now a lot of people being sick because of this incident.

I'm not talking about conspiracy theories, but just seems like something that happens in this world? Do you think this is possible?

No. It's very easy for people to measure radiation levels. You can't "cover up" a large radiation leak.

 

[clv101]

3,130 micro sievert per hour. That's ~3 mSv/hour. Natural background is around 2.4 mSv/year. So we're around 11,000 times higher than background. A typical medical x-ray is similar to 10 days background, so this 3 mSv from the reactor is like ~50 xrays (per hour). That doesn't sound so good.