I nearly forgot about the difference in ram
, I am so torn in picking up my next GPU it's unreal, it's a very even market out there and very hard to pick up a card and not wonder ''what if''(in the £200 range)-
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So ladies and gents, was fermi a fail after all?
- Thread starter deusexlumina
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I nearly forgot about the difference in ram
, I am so torn in picking up my next GPU it's unreal, it's a very even market out there and very hard to pick up a card and not wonder ''what if''(in the £200 range)
I nearly forgot about the difference in ram
Near enough the same performance (slightly more at 6970 speeds) but with more RAM = no brainer.
I think it's quite important when buying now to only go for 2GB+ graphics cards.
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The difference between 1.5GB and 2GB is negliable for the moment, even more so as the current consoles are not going to be replaced any time soon.
Even at resolutions of 2560x1600 with lots of AA/AF, the GTX 580 still retains the lead over the HD6970, so running out of memory isn't an issue for either card.
On another note, one thing I would say FERMI has over AMD/ATI's current architectures is it's massive tesselation performance. Cayman really hasn't sorted this out for AMD, as it still crumbles under extreme tessellation.
And lets be honest here, most of user really only care about power usage when it translates to heat and noise. So I think Nvidia's biggest failing with the GTX 470/GTX 480 launch was the inept stock cooler. If they just did a design similar to the 7900GTX or even gigabytes special edition / SoC design, it would have been far better received.
If you look at the GTX 580 as Fermi done right, you would see a card more than twice as fast as the card it replaced (the GTX 285 ).
Even at resolutions of 2560x1600 with lots of AA/AF, the GTX 580 still retains the lead over the HD6970, so running out of memory isn't an issue for either card.
On another note, one thing I would say FERMI has over AMD/ATI's current architectures is it's massive tesselation performance. Cayman really hasn't sorted this out for AMD, as it still crumbles under extreme tessellation.
And lets be honest here, most of user really only care about power usage when it translates to heat and noise. So I think Nvidia's biggest failing with the GTX 470/GTX 480 launch was the inept stock cooler. If they just did a design similar to the 7900GTX or even gigabytes special edition / SoC design, it would have been far better received.
If you look at the GTX 580 as Fermi done right, you would see a card more than twice as fast as the card it replaced (the GTX 285 ).
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It does actually happen, fairly often too. Which is why I think it's stupid that nVidia have given the 590 1.5GB per GPU, as the chances are anyone who is looking to buy one will likely to have a very high res monitor/multiple screens.
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Kylew, from the reviews I've seen this just isn't the case (haven't looked into multi-monitor setups so that might be different).
If you've got some sites/links which prove that 1.5GB isn't enough, SHOW THEM!!
If you've got some sites/links which prove that 1.5GB isn't enough, SHOW THEM!!
Wouldn't have called fermi a fail, it was just a little lackluster compared to some of their other recent offerings. It was probably helped by the fact a few die hard green fans stayed green due to ATI/AMD failing with earlier drivers.
I reackon if the red team drivers had been better and converted a few more people it could have gone a little differently. But considering that id say fermi was "fine".
I reackon if the red team drivers had been better and converted a few more people it could have gone a little differently. But considering that id say fermi was "fine".
The "driver" thing is largely a load of rubbish. People have problems with both nVidia and AMD drivers, it's not something that's exclusive to AMD like so many people would try and make you believe. The vast majority of people have no issues with either, and don't base their purchase on the drivers, they buy on value for money.
I wondered how long it would take for you to wade in? Are you and Jigger "special friends" or something? I'm sure he can argue for himself without the need for you to back him up everytime.
Hmmm...I guess that's what you call a "mature and reasonable" post is it?
Obviously performance is not going to drop, but more demanding games get released.
Again I'll repeat myself, all I care about is performance, surely that's not so hard to get your head round?
If you really cared that much about saving the whales you probably shouldn't be buying a top end card anyway, as none of them are exactly "eco friendly"
No not at all, I've not once mentioned the 580, in fact I'm glad in a way that I didn't end up owning one as it is barely any faster than my 480.
Some valid points above.
If you care about saving the world green peace and all you really shouldn't have a high end pc as for hotter not sure how many times ive said this get a decent air cooling case and the 480 temps are ok granted they are a little hot but manageable,if one regret i have is selling my 480 cracking card and a cracking price now from OCUK
And lets by honest is 100w more load that much of a big deal compared to the 5870? which at the time was the competition for the 480?
If you care about saving the world green peace and all you really shouldn't have a high end pc as for hotter not sure how many times ive said this get a decent air cooling case and the 480 temps are ok granted they are a little hot but manageable,if one regret i have is selling my 480 cracking card and a cracking price now from OCUK
And lets by honest is 100w more load that much of a big deal compared to the 5870? which at the time was the competition for the 480?
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I'll agree with Kylew with the drivers, the only major problem I had with ATi drivers was with the 11.2 drivers (installing them).
Once installed no issues to report.
I think because of the monthly updates, ATi drivers are more readily scrutinised as they are released more frequently than Nvidia's (Nvidia seems to release "Beta" drivers no end, which sort of gives them a semi free pass with problems because they are "Beta's").
More drivers = more problems.
In response to kmufc77, I would say that the power issue is more of a concern if your going Multi-GPU. Many people are able to have X-fire set-ups with 650+ watt psu's due to the lower power requirements of the HD58xx series. I mean, lets face it, not everyone wants to change their PSU as often as there graphics card, and not just for the cost either, its a major pain the backside to swap out a PSU with all the wires you have to de-route / re-route.
Once installed no issues to report.
I think because of the monthly updates, ATi drivers are more readily scrutinised as they are released more frequently than Nvidia's (Nvidia seems to release "Beta" drivers no end, which sort of gives them a semi free pass with problems because they are "Beta's").
More drivers = more problems.
In response to kmufc77, I would say that the power issue is more of a concern if your going Multi-GPU. Many people are able to have X-fire set-ups with 650+ watt psu's due to the lower power requirements of the HD58xx series. I mean, lets face it, not everyone wants to change their PSU as often as there graphics card, and not just for the cost either, its a major pain the backside to swap out a PSU with all the wires you have to de-route / re-route.
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This is an open forum, I'm not "backing" anybody up.
Mature and reasonable doesn't mean not finding things funny. You, of all people, suggested some one needed anger management. Based on your regular "diva-moments", I thought it was hilarious of you to suggest that.Hmmm...I guess that's what you call a "mature and reasonable" post is it?
My point was top end performance hasn't moved, and more demanding games haven't came out.
Yes, but you're focusing on "I" too much, when it's a discussion, it's not based on "I", something you clearly struggle to understand. It's an argument about the technicalities for why it's a technical failure, clearly as you keep ignoring when I say it's a good card in its own regard, but is a failure when compared to others.
I've not mentioned anything about whales and being eco friendly. It doesn't mean it's not valid to think it's crap that the card needs significantly more power considering the performance it gives now is it? I'd think nothing of the power draw if its performance correlated with it.
Fair enough, but you're saying the 6900s are fails while ignoring nVidia's latest efforts, which are also fails. If you want to talk about one, you've gotta be talking about the other as well.
I never mentioned anything about saving the world or green peace at all.
Well it depends, I couldn't cope with the heat out put from a card that sucks 100w more power, I find my 5870 is hot enough as it is, for me it's running at around 60 degrees idle (3 monitors plugged in), 100w more would be a lot more heat in my room which I couldn't stand (my room is 29 degrees as we speak). Now, if the performance difference was worth the extra heat output, I might have to put up with it, but the performance difference is negligible.
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Well coming from a 5870 to a 480 the extra heat and power were indeed worth it for me
The 480 produced better minimum frames and my whole gaming experiences felt smoother,so for a extra 100w on load and im guessing 10c more heat i was more than than happy with my 480.
Of course that my Opinion
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Your missing the point completely and so is Nvidia. The main problem is what's being produced. You could forgive Fermi the power failings if the end result produced the goods but sadly its not even close.
GTX480 330watt
HD5870 185watt 15% slower than Fermi
HD5970 300watt 40% faster than Fermi
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The only reason i would say fermi is definately a failure power wise is a gtx480 in certain situations pulls the same as a dual gpu 5970 and cannot compete on performance.
I have the case and power supply to easily use a gtx480 and would do so at there current price. It still does not change the fact technically its a fail on power, heat and noise. The heat and noise is only bad because nvidia use way to much power and i don't think anyone can say this is not true.
I have the case and power supply to easily use a gtx480 and would do so at there current price. It still does not change the fact technically its a fail on power, heat and noise. The heat and noise is only bad because nvidia use way to much power and i don't think anyone can say this is not true.
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I think the main problem is there is no clear concensus on what is an acceptable trade off betwee power / price / performance (I'll leave out mm2 because thats the manufactures problem, not ours).
One man might be willing to put up with the 100w extra if it gives him the 35fps min framerate that he wants.
Another might not.
To me, power isn't as much as a concern as heat and NOISE!!! (lol, noise especially).
If a chip is power hungry but the cooling solution keeps is cool and quiet it's not such a big deal to me (within reasonable limits - Fermi getting rather close to those reasonable limits).
One man might be willing to put up with the 100w extra if it gives him the 35fps min framerate that he wants.
Another might not.
To me, power isn't as much as a concern as heat and NOISE!!! (lol, noise especially).
If a chip is power hungry but the cooling solution keeps is cool and quiet it's not such a big deal to me (within reasonable limits - Fermi getting rather close to those reasonable limits).
It's not really rubbish is it though. Look at the drivers at the time of the 5 series realese, took them a while to get decent ones (Not counting the 5970 as that was later and its a dual card). Also were are you getting this vast majority of people from? I could always turn that round and say the opposite you know. Ofc nVidia drivers arn't perfect either but AMD ones seem lazy in places (bugs such dual monitor downclocking vanishing on 10.4 but then coming back in later drivers).
Not trying to provoke or anything just giving my opinion.
