Degree vs Experience

[Django x2]

A base degree is really all that counts these days. I know countless people who have then gone on to do masters or PhDs and not really had any benefit from it, effectively a waste of years of education. I'm doing mine part time whilst I work (which is a lot better for me), but I don't expect it to really count for anything other than remaining current with my chosen profession

 

[Jedeye]

As an employer, experience is what I would go for over a Degree, even having one myself. If someone has 3 years experience in the job I am looking to hire for, and both interviews are the same, the experienced person will win out over the person with the degree.

Thing is though, if you have a degree but no experience, you are less likely to make it to the interview stage.

I am in no way saying that a degree is not worth anything, far from it. If you have a degree you are showing a potential employer that you can commit to 2+ years of something, which is important to employers.

As the above poster said though, being a good 'fit' with the company is very, very important (at least at this company).

 

[BetaNumeric]

If you're restricting the discussion to IT then its a difficult question. So many people in IT have degrees yet at the same time you could learn so much more from experience, if you could only get it. The wider question of "degree vs experience" in general depends entirely on what you want to do. For things like medicine for instance, you can't be a doctor without university for instance but you still need a ton of experience because lectures will only tell you so much.

A base degree is really all that counts these days. I know countless people who have then gone on to do masters or PhDs and not really had any benefit from it, effectively a waste of years of education. I'm doing mine part time whilst I work (which is a lot better for me), but I don't expect it to really count for anything other than remaining current with my chosen profession

But there are people who couldn't get their job without their further qualifications. My job requires a PhD to even apply and even then we only interview 1 in 50 applicants but what I do is quite niche. The 1:50 ratio is actually partly due to the fact the skills people develop during a PhD are often not in line with good job placement, particularly in the maths and physics disciplines. Too many end up being myopic on their thesis topic and have little or no interest in more general things. Whether you're doing a PhD or an A Level, a broad interest in things is always a good thing and too many people lose that as they move through the education system.

 

[gettothechopper]

degree or experience or both

 

[Castiel]

But there are people who couldn't get their job without their further qualifications. My job requires a PhD to even apply and even then we only interview 1 in 50 applicants but what I do is quite niche. The 1:50 ratio is actually partly due to the fact the skills people develop during a PhD are often not in line with good job placement, particularly in the maths and physics disciplines. Too many end up being myopic on their thesis topic and have little or no interest in more general things. Whether you're doing a PhD or an A Level, a broad interest in things is always a good thing and too many people lose that as they move through the education system.

That makes sense, more emphasis on a broader range of education and then if you need specific academic qualifications like yourself then you can specialise from that broad knowledge base.

 

[icehot]

So, my Degree is currently going down the pan. My university has made numerous changes to my course making it almost impossible to have the original choice of degree I originally wanted.

I will be leaving with some form of degree but it begs the question of if it was even worth it in the first place. What would you choose as an employer, a degree or someone with experience?

I'm lucky in the fact I've got a bit of both by working a lot during my degree to get links into companies that give good references.

Serious question, I'm more looking at the IT/Telecomms industry here

I am like you in the sense that I worked while doing my degree, giving me some strong references for when I entered the job market for a full time career.

Your degree is incredibly valuable, never forget that. I graduated in July, never expected to get a job and some points I never thought I would as I applied to 5-10 jobs a week for a month period and never heard anything.

As soon as the school holidays ended, I started hearing back from a lot of employers and being actively contacted from recruiters looking at monster.

I've been working for EMC now for 5 months, one of the largest IT companies in the world and they really value people with higher education. 93% of the people who work for EMC have done higher education (no idea if this is true, we were presented a presentation on it for our introduction to EMC).

I believe its how the company you work for view whats more important, someone who has a degree or some form of higher education or someone who has been working since they were 16 or what ever. As always it a 'depends' situation

 

[BetaNumeric]

That makes sense, more emphasis on a broader range of education and then if you need specific academic qualifications like yourself then you can specialise from that broad knowledge base.

Unfortunately I don't think enough people start with a 'broad knowledge base' anyway but that's a wider issue to do with education and culture.

In regards to higher education it's the nature of the beast of academia I'm afraid. In an environment where you must reapply for a job every 3 years (ie postdocs) there's the 'publish or die' mentality so a broad experience can be hindrance if it cuts into your expertise in your area. Sure, for those who stay in academia it pays off but it means that many people who gain higher qualifications have sacrificed understanding in things outside of their specific area and when they leave academia they know a lot about a little.

I didn't have much of an intention to stay in academia (I never had much of a chance anyway, too competitive with too many very clever people in my area) and I like reading about things I don't know much about.

A PhD shows some good things but its not a magic ticket and even it is beginning to suffer from the dilution effect of cramming people into higher education. Just as there are some 'degrees' which should never have been some people get funding to do PhDs which should not be worth a PhD or serious funding but that's another topic....

 

[[TW]Fox]

What would you choose as an employer, a degree or someone with experience?

Somebody with both.

In 10 years time who do you employ, the guy with 10 years experience or the guy with 7 and a degree?

Remember, experience on its own is meaningless without ability. I have over a decades experience at playing first person shooters yet I remain completely awful at them. But on paper, wow I'm experienced.

We all encounter people in daily life who are just rubbish - I'm sure they've been rubbish for years and have many years experience at being rubbish.

 

[Mr Jack]

You will never be competing on the basis degree vs. experience; you will be competing on the basis of experience vs. degree + experience.

 

[RickST]

Remember, experience on its own is meaningless without ability.

this and only this, a degree might get you an interview but without ability you won't get the job.

there are some jobs where a degree is required but for the vast majority it is about experience and ability. I have no degree but I am amazing at what I do so therefore I am well paid and have never had any issues finding employment.

 

[UK-AL05]

this and only this, a degree might get you an interview but without ability you won't get the job.

there are some jobs where a degree is required but for the vast majority it is about experience and ability. I have no degree but I am amazing at what I do so therefore I am well paid and have never had any issues finding employment.

The hard bit is proving you have the ability, not having the ability, within the interview time. A degree certainly helps this.

Hell, I bet i could beat most MCSE holders at there own game but i could not prove it.

 

[Castiel]

The hard bit is proving you have the ability, within the interview time. A degree certainly helps this.

Proven experience and progression will indicate ability rather than simply having a degree.

 

[Castiel]

Somebody with both.

In 10 years time who do you employ, the guy with 10 years experience or the guy with 7 and a degree?

Remember, experience on its own is meaningless without ability. I have over a decades experience at playing first person shooters yet I remain completely awful at them. But on paper, wow I'm experienced.

We all encounter people in daily life who are just rubbish - I'm sure they've been rubbish for years and have many years experience at being rubbish.

Gaming is somewhat different from employment though.

If you had 10 years experience of first person shooters at a professional level with proven stats, that would be a better comparison. If you were terrible, it is highly improbable that you would have the 10 years experience.

 

[UK-AL05]

Proven experience and progression will indicate ability rather than simply having a degree.

Whats proven experience? I know some terrible software developers but they still get by...mainly because people hate firing people.

Looking at their cv, you would see 3 years of developing in c# not how good they are. If they are good a interviews, they could make it sound they are gods gift to software engineering, while a good developer with bad interviewing skills would not get the job.

 

[Castiel]

Whats proven experience? I know some terrible software developers but they still get by...mainly because people hate firing people.

Looking at their cv, you would see 3 years of developing in c# not how good they are.

The same is true of degrees, having a degree doesn't prove that you are any good, it merely indicates that you have some knowledge.

This is why we have interviews, recruitment exams, references, probationary periods etc....

 

[UK-AL05]

The same is true of degrees, having a degree doesn't prove that you are any good, it merely indicates that you have some knowledge.

This is why we have interviews, recruitment exams, references, probationary periods etc....

"some knowledge" Exactly, it says you have a certain standard of knowledge needed to pass. You might not be the best, but you have some.

interviews, recruitment exams, references, probationary periods etc....

The only technique that really works is probationary periods, then you have prepared to fire them.

Its my old companies policy, to only give out good references to everyone =P To save being sued. Other companies(Like Tesco) will only give employment details, not performance related ones.

 

[Castiel]

"some knowledge" Exactly, it says you have a certain standard of knowledge needed to pass. You might not be the best, but you have some.

Experience proves that also, along with the ability to at least 'do' the job in tge 'real world' at least competently enough to 'get by' as you put it.

 

[UK-AL05]

Experience proves that also, along with the ability to at least 'do' the job in tge 'real world' at least competently enough to 'get by' as you put it.

No it doesn't. In my experience in the majority of teams, there a few really good guys, and few absolutely clueless guys which get by from the work of the good ones.

I mean experience is good, especially if its obvious. If your a company founder, and the company flourishes then its in no doubt that the guy is good. However majority people have jobs where its is possible to get by, without doing a good job because there aren't any metrics to able to measure it. Look at how many crap teachers are around.

They never get promoted by the company, but they get by or they move up by joining another company at a higher position. They don't get fired however.

Grades are a possible metric(Though not a very good one), so it does prove something.


Its entirely should be entirely possible to recognised as a good worker through experience. Risks need to be taken to prove it though, like the company placing him in charge of a sales team and sales suddenly go up. However i've seen workers get into middle management through length of experience, not ability to do the job which is never good.

 

[Marky]

Experience without a doubt.