March in London on the 26th?

Superewza said:
The first is to inform them that they are trespassing, and the second is to inform them that something will be done about it. Feel free to find me a legal force that will act on a charge of trespass if those accused haven't even been told about it :)
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I'm sure the irony of you attempting to rely on your (mistaken) understanding of the law to support that group whilst previously suggesting that attacking the police is fine and reasonable (all means necessary, eh?) is not lost on you. Can't have your cake and eat it, I'm afraid.
 
Biohazard said:
I'm sorry, but you yourself are just showing yourself up a bit not him.

The army have turned out against British civilians, they didn't use force, but they pointed guns and howitzers at them.

Those civilians were soldiers who had returned from WWI to bugger all, look up Red Clydeside.

It was a long time ago, but soldiers carry out orders. They would supress the population if the government requires it, and probably still could disconnect to do it today.
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I guess you're not a fan of the armed forces then?

I'm sorry, but I seriously doubt that would happen today - I have a lot of experience of the military (used to be in the TA, various relatives in the Army/Air Force, used to be in the Air Scouts spending every school holiday on an air base somewhere in the UK) to have a handle on what they would consider legal and illegal orders.

But that's your opinion and so be it but lets hope for all our sakes it's wrong otherwise you're proving weza to be correct!

Superewza said:
Exactly - real people don't last long in the met. They're the ones who give themselves the illusion of authority and get disappointed, in many cases angry, when people treat them as what they really are: equals. There may well be individual members of the police force that are decent people, and are in the job for all the right reasons, but the organization itself is ultimately, beyond the task of fighting real crime, a tool for controlling the working classes. Nobody with even a basic knowledge of Orgreave could disagree with that.
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He's all yours guys - I've given up trying to save him - do with him as you please.
 
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Castiel said:
:rolleyes:

You are just making stuff up as you go along.
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That's what these so called socialist revolutionaries do to justify their actions. It's all rather pathetic because at the end of the day they will be living in cloud cuckoo land until their dying day.
 
Superewza said:
The first is to inform them that they are trespassing, and the second is to inform them that something will be done about it. Feel free to find me a legal force that will act on a charge of trespass if those accused haven't even been told about it :)
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Again, cite the law. This does not apply in the case of aggravated trespass.

Why is it that your arguments are always so woefully lacking in evidence?

Perhaps this is time for some serious introspection ;)
 
Castiel said:
No they would not.

Since WW1 the rules regarding the following of lawful orders is somewhat different.

The Armed Services Act states that orders must be lawful,

<snip>

In a civilian situation the civilian law would take precedence and unless there is some serious changes to legislation and a complete retraction from UK law of the auspices of the Geneva convention then what you seem to be suggesting simply would not take place.
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Thanks Castiel - I wrote my reply before I read yours - you've obviously had more time to write a better reply than I have but you're spot on.
 
simulatorman said:
That's what these so called socialist revolutionaries do to justify their actions. It's all rather pathetic because at the end of the day they will be living in cloud cuckoo land until their dying day.
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How about not responding to stereotypical emotional statements with the same? Then maybe we could all have a serious debate?
 
Superewza said:
The first is to inform them that they are trespassing, and the second is to inform them that something will be done about it. Feel free to find me a legal force that will act on a charge of trespass if those accused haven't even been told about it :)
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You might want to ask your local shopkeeper about the "we reserve the right..." clause in their terms and conditions of allowing you access to their premises.
 
amigafan2003 said:
The MET, as a whole, are a fine upstanding body of men and women. Not perfect, but they aren't the Orwellian horror you're making them out to be.
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But they work for the ruling class and are employed to beat down the working class, man! Fight the power!

*insert other outdated rhetoric that limply dribbles from superewza's mouth here*
 
amigafan2003 said:
The MET, as a whole, are a fine upstanding body of men and women. Not perfect, but they aren't the Orwellian horror you're making them out to be.
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So explain to me the inception of the kettling tactic? Explain to me the inception of plain clothes police who do not gather evidence for the rest, but stir up the crowds to give them an excuse to attack them? Explain to me the undeniably war like tactics used the met and almost a dozen other forces at Orgreave?

http://www.versobooks.com/blogs/444-police-stand-by-as-colleagues-in-plain-clothes-break-windows

Brilliant quote from a mate:

A few kids smash some windows and millions of people go "LOCK THEM UP"; yet a few rich men in suits trash our entire world and millions go "Oh well, what's on telly?" WAKE UP, PEOPLE!!!!!!!
 
So explain to me the inception of the kettling tactic?
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The kettling tactic is an attempt by the police to deal with mass protests that spontaneously move and don't stick to planned routes WITHOUT resorting to harsher methods. Whilst it's not nice, I can see why it's implemented (I ran an anti kettling website for the march and seriously didn't have anything to do - they really only used it against the trouble makers and as such wont bother doing the same again).

Explain to me the inception of plain clothes police who do not gather evidence for the rest, but stir up the crowds to give them an excuse to attack them?
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How do you know this happened? Before you respond, bear in mind I was there as a TUC steward.

Superewza said:
Explain to me the undeniably war like tactics used the met and almost a dozen other forces at Orgreave?
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You're seriously referencing events from 27 years ago and think that things haven't changed by now?
 
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amigafan2003 said:
You're seriously referencing events from 27 years ago and think that things haven't changed by now?
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I things had changed then we wouldn't be in this bloody mess in the first place, would we? Are you seriously suggesting that they wouldn't do it again at the drop of a hat, if push came to shove?
 
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