Plane's rudder? Pile a' pointless cack?

britboy4321 · 8 Apr 2011 at 16:35

So when I'm flying my fighter jet*, if I want to turn left .. bank left 90 degrees and pull 'up' on the stick, and away we go - nice left turn, awesome.

However if I bank left then 'apply some left rudder' as everyone tells me to do .. it just starts shifting the nose towards the ground, shoving the plane into a dive! .. it doesn't actually help me turn at all, that's still all achieved through me pulling up on the stick.

The only thing the stupid rudder seems to do for me is if I'm flying straight forward, and I apply left rudder, the plane kind of faces about 5 degrees to the left whilst still flying straight forward (if you get me). Release the rudder, and it's back to exactly straight forward. Can be slightly vaguely useful in getting an enemy into your sights thats thats just a little to the left .. - thats about it.

Furthermore, if I just bank slightly to the left and don't apply rudder, I gently turn to the left. Then I apply left rudder like everyone says I need to - yet again, it just seems to push the nose down towards the ground. Pile a'cack!

The rudder seems a load of pointless rubbish. What arn't I understanding?

By the way, I understand the concept of 'trim' etc and can understand why the rudder can counter a constant crosswind. But for turning? Eh?

* = yes, obviously within a game, I don't have my own fighter jet!

Cuchulain · 8 Apr 2011 at 16:36

You don't turn with a rudder unless you're on the ground.

britboy4321 · 8 Apr 2011 at 16:37

Cuchulain said:
You don't turn with a rudder unless you're on the ground.

So it's only, purely, totally for 'trimming' when in the air?

I thought on the ground your rudder pedals also controlled the front wheel - hence it wasn't the rudder actually doing the turning??

~~#M-Bizzle#~~ · 8 Apr 2011 at 16:37

I dont even know about planes, but surely a rudder used to deal with crosswinds???

iamtheoneneo · 8 Apr 2011 at 16:41

doesnt the rudder also stop a sudden change in roll? which is why planes are pretty impossible to control if they lose the tail section

Cuchulain · 8 Apr 2011 at 16:41

britboy4321 said:
So it's only, purely, totally for 'trimming' when in the air?

I thought on the ground your rudder pedals also controlled the front wheel - hence it wasn't the rudder actually doing the turning??

Probably, but in the air, if you bank left and give it some left rudder it should keep the nose up a bit better as I guess the rudder starts acting like an aileron, or is that right, not sure.

Docaroo · 8 Apr 2011 at 16:41

yes... have you ever seen those videos of passenger planes landing in huge crosswinds? I bet you'd miss your damn rudder then!!

Scuzi · 8 Apr 2011 at 16:44

You need to apply slight input to the rudder in the direction of the turn to keep the aircraft balanced. You can turn without it but the aircraft won't be properly in balance.

If you have a turn and slip indicator, you should aim to keep the ball in the middle.

Angleboy · 8 Apr 2011 at 16:48

you should do all three.

Rudder + pull up + bank. In the appropriate proportions of course.

RomanNose · 8 Apr 2011 at 16:55

My pilot friend informed me that it used to stop unbalancing when banking.
It's funny that he got his Pilot license before he learnt how to drive.

ianh · 8 Apr 2011 at 17:01

It's used 95% of the time at low speed (i.e landings) where it has the most effect (and range of movement) but all flight computers on modern planes (fly by wire etc) will automatically add in rudder for you during a turn so you don't manually have to. It reduces "crew fatigue" and makes for lazier pilots

ThomasTheTankEngine · 8 Apr 2011 at 17:05

Scuzi said:
You need to apply slight input to the rudder in the direction of the turn to keep the aircraft balanced. You can turn without it but the aircraft won't be properly in balance.

If you have a turn and slip indicator, you should aim to keep the ball in the middle.

This is expecially true on older aircraft (think pre ww2). Newer planes have advanced control surfaces which are designed to counter the adverse yaw you get in turning. If you're turning, then apply the rudder and the nose plummets to the floor, you're obviously not experiencing much adverse yaw. It's all gonna depend what plane you're flying, and how accurately it's simulated.

Narj · 8 Apr 2011 at 17:05

I did some lessons. My instructor once had to make a quick landing when the weather started turning quite windy. He did a slip and got us down to landing scarily quickly.... I was like FFFFUUUUU!

fidget · 8 Apr 2011 at 17:10

The rudder controls the yaw of the aircraft and is normally used in conjuction with the ailerons to keep the place balanced.

Cuchulain said:
You don't turn with a rudder unless you're on the ground.

You don't turn with the rudder when you are on the ground - it's just the rudder pedals also control the steering of the nosewheel

gettothechopper · 8 Apr 2011 at 17:29

rudder is great!

lets you do lovley side slip landings

but as others said you need it to keep the plane "in balance"
the c-42 I flew a few times had a little balance gauge and you are told to keep it in the middle of the gauge by "squashing" an imaginary football between your feet with the rudder pedals

ChrisJSY · 8 Apr 2011 at 18:28

fidget said:
You don't turn with the rudder when you are on the ground - it's just the rudder pedals also control the steering of the nosewheel

At high speed you will though, just in case they don't understand

Dabbles · 8 Apr 2011 at 18:47

If the nose goes down when you apply rudder when in a bank I'd suggest you're moving the rudder the wrong way.

Scuzi · 8 Apr 2011 at 18:49

Dabbles said:
If the nose goes down when you apply rudder when in a bank I'd suggest you're moving the rudder the wrong way.

I'd suggest too far in the correct direction.

Dabbles · 8 Apr 2011 at 18:52

Scuzi said:
I'd suggest too far in the correct direction.

Wouldn't that shift the nose towards the sky? Or are you suggesting the rudder 'stalls'?

Scuzi · 8 Apr 2011 at 18:58

Dabbles said:
Wouldn't that shift the nose towards the sky? Or are you suggesting the rudder 'stalls'?

Nope. If for example you are in a left banking turn and apply too much left rudder, the aircraft nose will yaw to the left, towards the ground.