Poll: DELETED_74993

Were we right to get involved in Libya?

  • Yes

    Votes: 306 50.9%

  • No

    Votes: 295 49.1%
  • Total voters
    601
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[TW]Fox;18950818 said:
Slightly different situation with what they are doing - but regardless, the political and economic risk of those two is much higher.
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It's different now, it wasn't wildly different back then in comparison to elsewhere other than a difference of opinion over the origins of the insurrection being a genuine civilian uprising or a group instigated affair.

I'm on the fence as you only ever get the real picture years later, but this would seem to contain the same hallmarks seen previously.
 
All of the things that the Libyan army (yep that's army not "pro-Gaddafi forces") are being accused of by western media could well be being done by the rebels to help justify a ground invasion, the Libyan army has absolutely nothing to gain from killing little girls going to the shop or using cluster bombs, whereas the rebels will be doing whatever they can to drag us into it because it's their only chance of winning.
 
This is why we shouldn't be involved in anything for a long time, so significant proportion of the West's populations can learn to trust their Government's again, if that were ever the case.
 
mmj_uk said:
All of the things that the Libyan army (yep that's army not "pro-Gaddafi forces") are being accused of by western media could well be being done by the rebels to help justify a ground invasion, the Libyan army has absolutely nothing to gain from killing little girls going to the shop or using cluster bombs, whereas the rebels will be doing whatever they can to drag us into it because it's their only chance of winning.
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maybe you should pull out old articles of massacres against civilians in the past that was commited by the Khadafi regime (just google huda ben amer - hanging school kids back in 1984, etc...). "why would they?" just becomes irrelevant, because fact is they did. seroioulsy trying to understand khadafi - i think one can go nuts, just listen to any of his speeches.
 
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thers a big difference between 1984 and now... he knows if he does anything terrible he wont remain in power because the UN wont allow it , why do you think hes been asking for independant observers ever since the bombing started....
 
arknor said:
thers a big difference between 1984 and now... he knows if he does anything terrible he wont remain in power because the UN wont allow it , why do you think hes been asking for independant observers ever since the bombing started....
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there is no difference. he knows BRIC nations would veto any more measures by the UN. and him asking for observers is a joke there are tons of journalist from different parts of the world that are reporting these strikes, some paying the ultimate price! you need to start understanding the difference between the lies of gadaffi and his actions - how many times has he said he called a cease fire, yet his army was shelling cities at that same time??
 
Just keep planting more mines and forget aboud it!! that seems to be the rebel stance at the moment. I hope they are marking them out so that they can recover and remove the threat when the action is all over...
 
lunarwolf said:
there is no difference. he knows BRIC nations would veto any more measures by the UN. and him asking for observers is a joke there are tons of journalist from different parts of the world that are reporting these strikes, some paying the ultimate price! you need to start understanding the difference between the lies of gadaffi and his actions - how many times has he said he called a cease fire, yet his army was shelling cities at that same time??
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This is a civil war or hadn't you noticed? A civil war that is being supported on one side by Britain et al. If jounalists are going to front lines, they risk getting killed!

Are Gaddafi forces not allowed to fight and defend themselves? It's the rebels who are holed up in the cities and fighting from there which clearly will increase the risk of civillian casualties!

As much as I don't like the man, he is the country's sovereign leader and he has considerable support from many of the tribes which make up the Libyan people. If there was a general concensus of wanting rid of Gaddafi, they would soon get rid of him!
 
lttlejoe said:
This is a civil war or hadn't you noticed? A civil war that is being supported on one side by Britain et al. If jounalists are going to front lines, they risk getting killed!

Are Gaddafi forces not allowed to fight and defend themselves? It's the rebels who are holed up in the cities and fighting from there which clearly will increase the risk of civillian casualties!

As much as I don't like the man, he is the country's sovereign leader and he has considerable support from many of the tribes which make up the Libyan people. If there was a general concensus of wanting rid of Gaddafi, they would soon get rid of him!
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fail to understand why you quote me since you aren't even refering to what i wrote??

i will quote you -> please explain your source to say he has considerable support from the tribes? journalists have been reporting of staged events in support of gadaffi, although i don't doubt he has supporters, i think making blanket statements like "considerable support" is baseless. as for the reason he is still around is he has weapons and the opposition is no match, they aren't trained soldiers and are poorly equiped.

PS furthermore let's get things factual and straight for the record. these protest started peacefully as demonstrations and gadaffi forces started killing them, so it is the demonstrators that started arming themesleves with what they could find to defend themselves. so your point about gadaffi forces defending themselves is skewed to say the least, since they started with the killings!
 
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all of the pro gaddafi events are staged acording to western journalists......

a few pages back i linked a video to gaddafi driving around tripoli in a convoy and told people to listen to what the bbc journalist was saying...

the journalist said how barely anyone was waving back etc lol and you could clearly see the people lining the sides of the street as he drove past fist pumpinh back to gaddafi.

the bbc only showed a small portion on skynews they showed the same clip but an extended version and LOL the extended version showed like 200-300 people sponatiously start trying to run along side the convoy all cheering.

the western media is biased to hell im ashamed of how the BBC are reporting this civil war i really am its disgusting way pay a tv licene fee and they bombard us with clear propaganda its a disgrace!
 
lunarwolf said:
i will quote you -> please explain your source to say he has considerable support from the tribes? journalists have been reporting of staged events in support of gadaffi, although i don't doubt he has supporters, i think making blanket statements like "considerable support" is baseless. as for the reason he is still around is he has weapons and the opposition is no match, they aren't trained soldiers and are poorly equiped.
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Nonsense, if he didn't have sufficient support they'd have strung him up too by now.
 
theres around 140 tribes or something silly in libyam if the majority didnt suport gaddafi you would have seen the rebels with a hell of a lot more suport than a few thousand people out of a country of 3million they are clearly a very small minority.

if the tribes wanteds rid of gaddafi when it looked like the rebels would easily take the country the tribes/militas would have all rised up against him yet they didnt.

this would be around the time mousa kousa fleed to britain , i bet he wishes he had stayed in libya once he realised the rebels were beeing pushed back , atleast until the british gave him a passport and said on your way old chap...

you know they only did that to try and make it seem like anyone jumping ship would be given a nice easy time thats how desperate our goverment is to try and get the people close to gaddafi to abandon him and its clearly not worked i would say gaddafi must seem stronger than ever to everyone around him, hes certainly no old fool
 
arknor said:
all of the pro gaddafi events are staged acording to western journalists......

a few pages back i linked a video to gaddafi driving around tripoli in a convoy and told people to listen to what the bbc journalist was saying...

the journalist said how barely anyone was waving back etc lol and you could clearly see the people lining the sides of the street as he drove past fist pumpinh back to gaddafi.

the bbc only showed a small portion on skynews they showed the same clip but an extended version and LOL the extended version showed like 200-300 people sponatiously start trying to run along side the convoy all cheering.

the western media is biased to hell im ashamed of how the BBC are reporting this civil war i really am its disgusting way pay a tv licene fee and they bombard us with clear propaganda its a disgrace!
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lol check out Al Jazeera (Qatar), RT (Russia), NHK (Japan -albeit NHK's focus recently has been Fukushima) or Press TV (Iran) or is that western media as well?
 
arknor said:
theres around 140 tribes or something silly in libyam if the majority didnt suport gaddafi you would have seen the rebels with a hell of a lot more suport than a few thousand people out of a country of 3million they are clearly a very small minority.

if the tribes wanteds rid of gaddafi when it looked like the rebels would easily take the country the tribes/militas would have all rised up against him yet they didnt.

this would be around the time mousa kousa fleed to britain , i bet he wishes he had stayed in libya once he realised the rebels were beeing pushed back , atleast until the british gave him a passport and said on your way old chap...

you know they only did that to try and make it seem like anyone jumping ship would be given a nice easy time thats how desperate our goverment is to try and get the people close to gaddafi to abandon him and its clearly not worked i would say gaddafi must seem stronger than ever to everyone around him, hes certainly no old fool
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again no facts about support - just blanket statements/conclusions. and it's a lot more than a few thousand against him - just check the population of benghazi (second biggest city in Lybia btw), Misrata, Ajdabya, etc..
 
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lunarwolf said:
the amount of support for gaddaffi is pure speculation. fact is: he is well armed (at least compared to civilian population) and has been been pounding them since feb.
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So is your comment of "I think making blanket statements like "considerable support" is baseless." also speculative then.
 
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