I am indifferent to his death, what does make me laugh is the contradictory "official" versions that are being reported by US officials.
They had a live video feed of the raid, how hard can it be to establish the facts and then report them?
Osama bin Laden is dead - no graphic/violent images.
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I am indifferent to his death, what does make me laugh is the contradictory "official" versions that are being reported by US officials.
They had a live video feed of the raid, how hard can it be to establish the facts and then report them?
Soldato
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So? A military operation differs from a Police operation in many respects, especially when deep behind the lines, such as the SEALS were in this case. For all they knew, reinforcements from the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, and possibly even the Pakistani military itself could have been bearing down on them. If the target isn't co-operating and could possibly be armed, and your brief is to either kill or capture, what option do they have?
Time is a factor in all military operations, and a critical one at that, especially when you're isolated, potentially heavily outnumbered and miles from the nearest friendly forces. The fact that they didn't inform Pakistani authorities before the raid is also quite a telling factor too I'd say.
Edit: Besides, Osama was one of the better standards of ******* in this life, why all the erstatz outrage over his death? Would you be upset if Kim Jong-Il or Mugabe bought it?
Time is a factor in all military operations, and a critical one at that, especially when you're isolated, potentially heavily outnumbered and miles from the nearest friendly forces. The fact that they didn't inform Pakistani authorities before the raid is also quite a telling factor too I'd say.
Edit: Besides, Osama was one of the better standards of ******* in this life, why all the erstatz outrage over his death? Would you be upset if Kim Jong-Il or Mugabe bought it?
where have i said you supported osama?
I can assure you they would rather have captured him alive and well than shoot him dead immediately, they must have had reason to believe he was a threat.
American forces didn't seem to have a problem capturing people alive when it came to extraordinary rendition or shipping them to Guantanamo Bay.
Obviously that depends on each individual operation.
Why are you so sure?
You don't know what anymore than anyone else that they might have reasons not to have him go to trial and what could come out?
Such a shame we will never see the video, to see how much of a threat he was before they popped him in the head.
If they got that far and a women was being used as a shield I really don't see why taking him alive was such a big deal.
Soldato
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I can imagine it was the last thing on their mind. If he's alive, he can still dictate, No matter where he is. Other terrorist cells could hold hostages and try and demand his release. With him taken out of the picture entirely, The only worry we have now is the next leader, unless ofcourse he's a peaceful one. not likely
Why? So hostages can be taken and attacks carried out on westerners trying to force the US release him? So fundamentalists around the world can whip each other into a frenzy during his trial? So when he was inevitably executed he could be made into a proper martyr and have his name galvanised in history more than it already is?
Capturing him alive, trying him and executing him would have just created one big, drawn out mess. Capturing and not executing him would have enraged half the US public. It's better and cleaner this way. Can't think of a better end to this chapter of the whole sordid tale than a nice clean double-tap.
Associate
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That is apparently not entirely true now aswell we are hearing:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2011/05/leon-panetta.html
I dont know about you guys but the impression I got was that he was watching it all happen, presumably via cameras mounted to the seal team guys helmets etc and he watched it unfold that way. Panetta says that isnt the case. Although he did mention the admiral came back, so maybe the military commanders where privy to images the president wasnt?
What do you mean, "If they got that far?", it wasn't the final level of COD.
He resisted, he was shot, he was killed. No conspiracy or inconsistency. It was a military assault on an armed compound with an ongoing armed resistance, whether he was personally armed or not is irrelevant. In the circumstances any resistance is a thread to the men and the mission, he was killed in a combat operation.
That is it.
Man of Honour
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Nothing will stop that.
The fact is that there is information that should never be in the public domain. I personally don't see the benefit in showing a picture of a dead Osama Bin Laden with the back of his head off. It may cause more issues than it would solve and certainly shouldnt be to satisfy conspiracy theorists.
Nor would I expect footage of a highly classified covert op to be released for the same reason.
There is something strange about the whole thing no doubt but it isn't a real shock that Bin Laden is dead. He has had his card marked by the US for over 10 years and dead or alive was said by Bush and capture or kill by Obama.
I wouldn't be surprised if he was still alive and in the custody of the US never to be seen again also.
How hard can it be to capture an unarmed man in his mid fifties?
It wasn't a military operation though as that was not allowed by Pakistan.
Of course it was a military operation.
As for how hard, that totally depends on the situation and that we don't know. A lot of the miss information is just like 9/11 to many people making assumptions and stating stuff above their station.
Even if they showed any life video and a picture it wouldn't change your opinions.
As for how hard, that totally depends on the situation and that we don't know. A lot of the miss information is just like 9/11 to many people making assumptions and stating stuff above their station.
Even if they showed any life video and a picture it wouldn't change your opinions.
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An unarmed man surrounded and protected by a hostile compound full of armed followers.......
It was hardly "excuse me we have a warrant, you have the right to remain silent....." was it.
Semantics.
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I wouldn't be surprised if he was captured alive and is now being interrogated to find out more information about his network, contact, hierarchy etc. They can keep him holed up as long as they want by telling the world he is dead and his body is somewhere at the bottom of the ocean.
Think about it. That would be the IDEAL outcome of a raid on his location. In, capture, out. Tell the world and his followers he is dead...buried in line with Islamic tradition (to minimise offense) and then get information out of him. Win, win for them.
If they'd captured him alive and had told the world that was the case there would have been so much pressure on the US to put him to trial (do they even have the evidence of his crimes?!), the extremists would go on the rampage demanding his release, and they wouldn't have the 'resource' in the same way they (potentially) have now. He would be a GOLDMINE of information.
Again, this is the same problem we have with what happened in 9/11 - no concrete evidence, no facts, and official stories that seem to contradict each other.
Edit: I much preferred chatting/reading the thread about the Royal Wedding. That was awesome. This is depressing.
Think about it. That would be the IDEAL outcome of a raid on his location. In, capture, out. Tell the world and his followers he is dead...buried in line with Islamic tradition (to minimise offense) and then get information out of him. Win, win for them.
If they'd captured him alive and had told the world that was the case there would have been so much pressure on the US to put him to trial (do they even have the evidence of his crimes?!), the extremists would go on the rampage demanding his release, and they wouldn't have the 'resource' in the same way they (potentially) have now. He would be a GOLDMINE of information.
Again, this is the same problem we have with what happened in 9/11 - no concrete evidence, no facts, and official stories that seem to contradict each other.
Edit: I much preferred chatting/reading the thread about the Royal Wedding. That was awesome. This is depressing.
Yet there are survivors, non of which as of yet seem to have given us their version of events.
Man of Honour
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He may not have been armed but his guards at the compound would have been.
As for not informing Pakistan, the US were quite right. It is a fair bet that the mission would have been compromised. The ISI are not the most trusted organisation in the eyes of the US intelligence community.