Landlord and mahooosive leccy bill

Mansize_tissue · 30 May 2011 at 12:27

So me and 3 others pay £60 (£15 each) a month for electricity in a rented property, based on an estimate for whoever lived here the year prior. Over the (almost) 2 years we've lived here, however, I realised we actually owe an extra £1200-1500 because we've only ever had estimated bills despite having the meter read multiple times a year.

Now this doesn't seem possible under normal conditions, until we realised that the thermostat for our boiler had been broken (now fixed, as of a couple of months ago) for who knows how long and was basically overheating the water to such an extent that steam was escaping from a loose valve, condensing, and causing massive amounts of damp and mould on the ceiling 2 floors below (this is how we realised there was a problem).

Obviously this is not our fault, and we can't think of any other way we could have amassed such a bill.

How should we go about handling this with our landlord? As we feel we shouldn't be liable for this bill. I told the letting agency last week and they said to write a covering letter with a copy of the bill. Thing is we haven't actually received the bill because I only found out by comparing the meter readings myself with the estimates, and I wouldn't know where to begin with wording a letter to our landlord (which we don't have a great relationship with as a result of the house generally being **** and us making various complaints).

Thanks in advance GD.

Destination · 30 May 2011 at 12:33

You've an electric boiler?

Or did you all leave the immersion heater on constantly, using a thermostat as a regulator?
I wasn't aware immersions were governed by the same thermostat as the rest of the conventional heating, in fact, I doubt they could be, the systems are meant to be independent, so if one fails the other is available.
Anyway, might be best to take it up the with the electric company first, see if they'll reduce the bill initially given the fact they ignored meter readings and haven't made corrections in 2 years?

kiwi · 30 May 2011 at 12:33

From past dealings with landlords especially over money, you're probably going to have to go to small claims court if you want any chance of getting some money to cover the bill. Not a lawyer but it doesn't sound 100% cut and dry tbh.

Before that though, you have to try and work out your normal monthly usage to estimate how much you think the landlord is liable.

Destination · 30 May 2011 at 12:36

Do all 4 of you have PCs? as £60 a month sounds a reasonably cheap amount for 4 people if they run PCs and other associated tech goods that students tend to have oen of each. Do you use a tumble dryer? Do you all cook a single meal or each of you use the oven independently? Electric showers for 4 people?

willhub · 30 May 2011 at 12:39

Sorry to hijack, I'm looking for rented property and 2 landlords have said on average it should be around £6 a week for all bills (water/electric/gas), is this fairly accurate?

And I'd be running the rig in my sig a good 6 hours a day maybe less sometimes or more.

buzzby · 30 May 2011 at 12:41

I think you will have to pay. While it is the landlords responsibility to repair items it is your responsibility to notify him of faults. If he isn't aware of a problem then he cannot fix it.

Also if you had phoned the electric company with a meter and got an actual bill (not estimated) then you may have seen the issue first.

I would also assume you will be responsibility for paying to repair the water damage caused by the boiler, again because its your duty to notify the landlord.

Wicksta · 30 May 2011 at 12:45

You should word the letter to your landlord "Dear Landlord, we were a bit silly and didn't notice our electricity bills were estimated and have amassed a large bill because of our ignorance which is clearly our own fault. Could you please come and fix the boiler so we don't continue to use lots of electricity. May the seeds of your loin be fruitful in the belly of your woman. Love, Neil."

Destination · 30 May 2011 at 12:48

willhub said:
Sorry to hijack, I'm looking for rented property and 2 landlords have said on average it should be around £6 a week for all bills (water/electric/gas), is this fairly accurate?

And I'd be running the rig in my sig a good 6 hours a day maybe less sometimes or more.

I'd be amazed if your electric alone wasn't costing more than £6. Rig will cost you over £2 a week in electric alone. Quick electric showers each day will cost a further £1 a week. Cook for yourself?

jcr · 30 May 2011 at 12:50

willhub said:
Sorry to hijack, I'm looking for rented property and 2 landlords have said on average it should be around £6 a week for all bills (water/electric/gas), is this fairly accurate?

And I'd be running the rig in my sig a good 6 hours a day maybe less sometimes or more.

sounds about right going by my own bills. leaving my puta on permanent doesnt make much difference to my electric bill.

Mansize_tissue · 30 May 2011 at 12:52

Yes we've an electric boiler, no gas at all in this house. Electric storage heaters throughout which we don't use because of how inefficient and costly they are. We don't use that much power, 1 housemate spends the majority of his time at his girlfriends, another eats a couple of packets of supernoodles a day, and we all just run laptops. Also no tumble dryer, and only 2 of us use the washing machine in this place. Basically we should be using a similar amount to my other student friends who pay around £50-60 a month tops.

Also we were completely unaware of the problem until we noticed the damp, which could have been many months after the problem started given how long it takes for water to drip through 2 floors.

I guess we could have called the electricity company early on, but we saw no reason to as we assumed the estimates would be accurate as they're based on what the previous tenants used in the same house. Why would we be liable to repair the damage? We were unaware of it until we noticed the damp, at which point we notified the landlord immediately and the valve was fixed. But obviously the boiler wasn't as this was overlooked as a possible cause. It wasn't until later when the damp continued that we realised there was a bigger problem.

Wicksta said:
You should word the letter to your landlord "Dear Landlord, we were a bit silly and didn't notice our electricity bills were estimated and have amassed a large bill because of our ignorance which is clearly our own fault. Could you please come and fix the boiler so we don't continue to use lots of electricity. May the seeds of your loin be fruitful in the belly of your woman. Love, Neil."

Surely it's the electricity provider's responsibility to bill us correctly, no? Ignorance.. ignorance of what? How were we to know there was a problem when there were no visible signs? Don't be ridiculous.

the_r_sole · 30 May 2011 at 13:01

if you (the tenant) is responsible for paying the bills, then you're responsible! it's not your landlords fault if you haven't paid attention to the bills and usage, or provided actual readings to the electricity company.
it is not up to the electricity company to nanny you, it's your responsibility to give them regular meter reading if you want to avoid big bills - i had a 300 quid one land on me one month in the same situation, usually the electricity company will let you spread the amount over a period of time if you ask nicely

Vonhelmet · 30 May 2011 at 13:03

Mansize_tissue said:
Surely it's the electricity provider's responsibility to bill us correctly, no? Ignorance.. ignorance of what? How were we to know there was a problem when there were no visible signs? Don't be ridiculous.

If you were reading the bills then it should have been clear that they were estimated.

The problem would have still existed, but it might have been caught earlier.

Wicksta · 30 May 2011 at 13:06

Mansize_tissue said:
bility to bill us correctly, no? Ignorance.. ignorance of what? How were we to know there was a problem when there were no visible signs? Don't be ridiculous.

Those bits of paper that appear every morning on the doormat. Try opening and reading them? They make it very clear when bills are estimated, and will give you instructions on how to call in a meter reading.

Why should the landlord pay for your sloppiness? Two years of estimated bills? lol.

Vonhelmet · 30 May 2011 at 13:12

If you take the landlord to court for, most probably, negligence in allowing the boiler to leak, his payout to you will likely be strongly mitigated by your having let the problem continue for years without doing anything to bring it to his attention.

VoG · 30 May 2011 at 13:16

willhub said:
Sorry to hijack, I'm looking for rented property and 2 landlords have said on average it should be around £6 a week for all bills (water/electric/gas), is this fairly accurate?

£312 per year for water, gas, & electric combined seems wildly optimistic. hell, my water bill alone comes to £411.17 per year. ( Severn Trent water, bunch of grasping gits! ).

Mansize_tissue · 30 May 2011 at 13:20

The bills are quarterly and, with no reason to believe estimates weren't accurate, we (naively) didn't think it would be necessary to routinely check the meter ourselves given that they were read multiple times by the electricity guy (what he did with the readings, I don't know). I did have a look at the meter a few times in the first few weeks of living here and all was in check so I didn't see the need to continue. I guess I'll know better next time.

Von, we're not expecting him to pay in full by any means (indeed it would be near-impossible to accurately attribute the costs caused by the problem anyway, and clearly the fault is divided between multiple parties here). But we did identify that there was a problem over 14 months ago and all he did was provide a temporary bandaid rather than find the cause of the problem and fix it properly.

Wicksta · 30 May 2011 at 13:26

Mansize_tissue said:
The bills are quarterly and, with no reason to believe estimates weren't accurate, we (naively) didn't think it would be necessary to routinely check the meter ourselves given that they were read multiple times by the electricity guy (what he did with the readings, I don't know).

Your first sentence is a contradiction, did you know they were estimates or not?

Unfortunately yes you were naive and you'll have to suck it up I'm afraid.

Vonhelmet · 30 May 2011 at 13:30

Mansize_tissue said:
The bills are quarterly and, with no reason to believe estimates weren't accurate, we (naively) didn't think it would be necessary to routinely check the meter ourselves given that they were read multiple times by the electricity guy (what he did with the readings, I don't know). I did have a look at the meter a few times in the first few weeks of living here and all was in check so I didn't see the need to continue. I guess I'll know better next time.

One does wonder where the readings were going... I doubt they'd be sympathetic to that though. You used the electricity regardless, even if their billing schedule was off.

Mansize_tissue said:
Von, we're not expecting him to pay in full by any means (indeed it would be near-impossible to accurately attribute the costs caused by the problem anyway, and clearly the fault is divided between multiple parties here). But we did identify that there was a problem over 14 months ago and all he did was provide a temporary bandaid rather than find the cause of the problem and fix it properly.

Well, that's good news, assuming that you have some kind of proof of it. If he's done a rubbish job (A landlord doing a terrible job? Surely not!) then that tips things back in your favour.

Mansize_tissue · 30 May 2011 at 13:34

I was aware they were estimates, yes. I don't see the contradition. :confused:

As I said they were based on the previous tenants, and given that we use a less-than-average amount of electricity compared to everyone else I know, and that they were in check with the actual meter readings in the first few weeks of living here, I saw no reason to continue keeping a check on them. For one the meter is in a very awkward place to reach in a cupboard behind a freezer. In fact, if we didn't have the strength to take the freezer out of the cupboard, which was very difficult even for a bunch of young guys, it would have been impossible to read. An old women certainly wouldn't have been able to get to it, for example.

Deadbeat · 30 May 2011 at 13:35

Burn his house down