30th of June strikes.

[Defiant306]

Senior Civil Servants are in line for bonuses and potential remuneration increases this year.

While I cant speak for Senior, we small fry servants arent getting jack crap and they are hammering us with sub 2% a year increases that arent even meeting cost of living increases.

Folks talk about the civil service like we are all the same grades, the vast bulk are low paid staff who do their job the best they can for less than the private sector knowing that they will be taken care of later. So now they want to kill that, I have no beef sliding the scales on the pensions as the grades go higher. But this plain damn hurts us lower end folks hard.

I think at the end of the day we are all screwed when we have left MPs to continue running their own expenses system even after what happened.

 

[Dolph]

It would devastate trade Unionism probably, certainly within terms of the Government and public sector.

Why would it? The only way it would do that is if you actually believe trade unions can only ever behave unreasonably.

I don't, I think that there is a way forward to be found, but that some unions (such as PCS, RMT, CWU, Unite etc) are too wedded to political dogma to ever behave reasonably, and it is those unions that will end up getting all union activities restricted, and that isn't actually a good thing.

 

[Biohazard]

Realises the negative effect it would have on innocents considering the nature of his job?

Quite probably, but no strike action is ever near fully effective or supported.

Cover service is normally maintained.

When the Firebrigade strike London does not burn down.

It is possible, and slightly unfair to hold this logic too harshly upon them. The government abuse their good will ultimately.

 

[Biohazard]

Why would it? The only way it would do that is if you actually believe trade unions can only ever behave unreasonably.

I don't, I think that there is a way forward to be found, but that some unions (such as PCS, RMT, CWU, Unite etc) are too wedded to political dogma to ever behave reasonably, and it is those unions that will end up getting all union activities restricted, and that isn't actually a good thing.

Yes Dolph, because the employer never acts unreasonably.

We to prejudge the whole situation to match your narrow agenda as per usual.

PCS is not wedded to political dogma. Quite frankly you are making it up now, and if it is indeed 'political dogma' it isn't mainstream UK political dogma. After all, it's pretty hard to not to be 'political' when your employer is.

The latter part is correct, at least you recognise some benefit.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

Not particularly effected or bothered?

Supportive even?

I'm affected mate. My pension contribution will increase without a doubt and I'm bothered that the coalition want to reduce pensions to a career average rather than final salary and increase the retirement age from 55 to 60. Do people want 60 year old cops on the streets on a Friday night?

I will take part in any lawful demonstration as I did in 2008 when Jacqui Smith wanted to tinker with police. I wish the 750k well and all the best in their actions but what it will achieve I'm not so sure.

The defecit isn't going to go way without tough cuts that any party would have to tackle.

As for striking, Tefal has it nailed head on. My conscience wouldn't be clear if a thinner blue line as a result of striking caused harm to an innocent public.

 

[Dolph]

Yes Dolph, because the employer never acts unreasonably.

I never said or implied that, employers can and do act unreasonably, but they are restrained by employment law when they try.

Pendulum arbitration would ensure both sides have to act more reasonably.

We to prejudge the whole situation to match your narrow agenda as per usual.

PCS is not wedded to political dogma. Quite frankly you are making it up now, and if it is indeed 'political dogma' it isn't mainstream UK political dogma. After all, it's pretty hard to not to be political when your employer is.

PCS is certainly wedded to political dogma, any read of any of their press releases or interviews with their leader in sympathetic papers clearly shows this.

 

[Biohazard]

Oh I'm affected. My pension contribution will increase without a doubt and I'm bothered that the coalition want to reduce pensions to a career average rather than final salary and increase the retirement age from 55 to 60. Do people want 60 year old cops on the streets on a Friday night?

We've got the exact same problem.

Retirement on health grounds in many positions are going to become the norm before people hit retirement in certain roles.

I will take part in any lawful demonstration as I did in 2008 when Jacqui Smith wanted to tinker with police. I wish the 750k well and all the best in their actions but what it will achieve I'm not so sure.

The defecit isn't going to go way without tough cuts that any party would have to tackle.

I'm not sure what it will achieve either.

 

[Biohazard]

I never said or implied that, employers can and do act unreasonably, but they are restrained by employment law when they try.

Pendulum arbitration would ensure both sides have to act more reasonably.

"The only way it would do that is if you actually believe trade unions can only ever behave unreasonably."

You clearly did imply it. It would destroy trade unionism with regards to interactions with Westminster on terms and conditions, not because of the Union but because of the nature of this discredited parliament.

PCS is certainly wedded to political dogma, any read of any of their press releases or interviews with their leader in sympathetic papers clearly shows this.

Which political dogma is it attached too?

How can you have a Union in the political employment sphere which is in some sense or other, not political?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Retirement on health grounds in many positions are going to become the norm before people hit retirement in certain roles.

That's what they want - you get even less then!

There are going to be a lot of old, sick and poor people about in 50 years time.

That reminds me, I haven't watched Soylent Green in a while.

 

[Biohazard]

While I cant speak for Senior, we small fry servants arent getting jack crap and they are hammering us with sub 2% a year increases that arent even meeting cost of living increases.

Folks talk about the civil service like we are all the same grades, the vast bulk are low paid staff who do their job the best they can for less than the private sector knowing that they will be taken care of later. So now they want to kill that, I have no beef sliding the scales on the pensions as the grades go higher. But this plain damn hurts us lower end folks hard.

I think at the end of the day we are all screwed when we have left MPs to continue running their own expenses system even after what happened.

Divide and conquer, that's how it's always worked.

Love to see Excom talk about staff engagement now

 

[Caseh]

I like the bits of Public Sector bashing that has gone on in this thread.

I work in the Public Sector, and don't agree with the strikes, the cuts and changes are annoying, but I'm much more bothered about keeping my job at this moment in time.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

I tell you what, 9 pages in 8hrs is damn impressive!

Gnight all.

 

[Dolph]

You clearly did imply it. It would destroy trade unionism with regards to interactions with Westminster on terms and conditions, not because of the Union but because of the nature of this discredited parliament.

Why would it do that? The government as an employer is bound by the same employment laws as everyone else.

The only reason it would destroy them is if they repeatedly take unreasonable positions and thereby lose their members far more than if they'd taken a more reasonable course.

Which political dogma is it attached too?

Socialism, nationalisation, punishing the successful...

How can you have a Union in the political employment sphere which is in some sense or other, not political?

You can certainly have one that is a lot less politically motivated than the PCS... It's very clear that striking over 'spending cuts' is a politically motivated move, especially as Serwotka's position is that there should be no spending cuts at all...

 

[Biohazard]

I like the bits of Public Sector bashing that has gone on in this thread.

I work in the Public Sector, and don't agree with the strikes, the cuts and changes are annoying, but I'm much more bothered about keeping my job at this moment in time.

It's par for the course with the offensive and ignorant around here...

 

[Duke]

my contract of employment with the civil service clearly states that I pay in 3% and i retire at 60, now this government wants to change that without even asking me.

What on earth? You only pay in 3%?! How much does the Gov put in?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Why would it do that? The government as an employer is bound by the same employment laws as everyone else.

I have to disagree with you there - the government is the only employer that can change the employment law it is supposed to adhere to.

For example, when PCS won it court case stating that the the forced changed to the CSCS were illegal. "Fine" said the government, "we'll just change the law". How many other employers have that option?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

What on earth? You only pay in 3%?! How much does the Gov put in?

It's a matching based scheme as far as I'm aware and nothing for AVC'S

Oh, here's what the government say about average civil service pay btw - thought I'd post it for a laugh:-

The truth

The average annual salary in the Civil Service is £23,680. This is based on full-time civil servants as at 31 March 2010.

Check evidence: Office for National Statistics – Civil Service statistics 31 March 2010

This salary is £1,015 less than the national average for the private sector, which was £24,695 in April 2010.

1: National average based on median annual earnings for full-time employees, year ending 5 April 20010, ASHE 2010
2: Public sector average based on weekly median gross weekly earnings for public sector full-time employees

Check evidence: Office for National Statistics – 2010 Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings

Around 61 per cent of civil servants earn less than £25,000 a year:

http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/Assets/Salaries_tcm6-34569.jpg


Key research has shown that the gap between Civil Service and private sector salaries gets wider the further up the organisation you go. On average, directors general earn 50% less than their equivalents in the private sector.

In the Senior Civil Service – the top 1% of our organisation – salary bands are set by the independent Senior Salaries Review Body.

Source

Nice to see the general public disbelieving what the government say - and here I was thinking all along that it was the government building this myth about the civil service and making them despised.

It turns out it actually just the Telegraph and DM readers after all!

 

[Biohazard]

Why would it do that? The government as an employer is bound by the same employment laws as everyone else.

The only reason it would destroy them is if they repeatedly take unreasonable positions and thereby lose their members far more than if they'd taken a more reasonable course.

It can change the law.

The O/S has a propensity to produce distorted statistics and sits on them.

That has nothing to do with the Union, and it's highlighted by non union members also.

The employer acts unreasonably. Usual Westminster arrogance if you ask me.

Socialism, nationalisation, punishing the successful...

Do you accept the mantra that a union ends up mirroring or inverses against it's employer quite well?

In what sense are they all socialist?

Do they propose nationalisation for everything?

How on earth do they punish the succesful?

You can certainly have one that is a lot less politically motivated than the PCS... It's very clear that striking over 'spending cuts' is a politically motivated move, especially as Serwotka's position is that there should be no spending cuts at all...

Because the cuts are in a political context, the running of the civil service.

PCS isn't very politically motivated at all, you're barking up the wrong tree there are far better examples you could pick that are.

 

[Duke]

I tell you what, 9 pages in 8hrs is damn impressive!

Gnight all.

And no surprise you've posted the most

 

[picktooth]

i was going to lol, but really it isnt funny, wtf have they got to winge about they should try thinking about the what the soldiers have to put up with before they think theyve got it hard.
As someone already said, sack em thiers plenty of people looking for jobs.