Teachers on strike

gord said:
It is self funding and what Minto said is accurate. But sustainable, no. Teachers used to be underpaid but with the promise of a lucrative pension. Under labour teachers have protested for salary increases. Today they have very reasonable pay for their work. Their pension system has not adjusted to reflect this.

The teachers of today have to pay for the teachers of yesterday. This is not a sustainable scheme. As people live longer the pension demand is going to out grow the funding potential of today's teachers.
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As long as a realistic value for life expectancy is used.
Half the Torie's calculations are based on the assumption that people will live to 105 average within 15 years.
 
vonhelmet said:
Elaborate.
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The problem you identify in tax payer liability, it isn't exclusive to this case.

It can, broadly, be applied to nearly everything. State pension liabilities, our overall spending increasing by the day into which you or I will never see paid off.

Rinse repeat, this is a pyramid scheme into which the people we are ripping off aren't even alive yet, or are still at school.

Yes, start somewhere to improve on this. Teachers pensions are in surplus if you wrapped it up in a shell scheme instead of a liability, and as we are sat the future tax payer liability would actually drop a percentage and a half anyway.

The problem wasn't worsening, it was easing relatively.
 
vonhelmet said:
The holidays and working hours thing is a red herring, given the amount of planning and marking teachers have to do.

There's a valid argument to be had here - let's not get lost in fallacies.
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haha really? They download most stuff of the internet and sit kids in front of flash videos and powerpoints.
Some teaching i have witnessed has been awful.

All of this 'we do extra work at home' is rubbish. They teach 26 hours a week when most of us are working 40hours + a week.
Also the holidays that are so full of planning and marking is a joke, There are never teachers in school during holidays until the last week of summer.
I pay all my pension contributions, will have to work until im 70+, i dont get yearly pay rises. Why should they be sheltered from cuts etc?
 
topshot said:
haha really? They download most stuff of the internet and sit kids in front of flash videos and powerpoints.
Some teaching i have witnessed has been awful.

All of this 'we do extra work at home' is rubbish. They teach 26 hours a week when most of us are working 40hours + a week.
Also the holidays that are so full of planning and marking is a joke, There are never teachers in school during holidays until the last week of summer.
I pay all my pension contributions, will have to work until im 70+, i dont get yearly pay rises. Why should they be sheltered from cuts etc?
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You clearly know some pretty craptastic teachers.
 
vonhelmet said:
Where am I getting my figures? The sets of accounts I see day in day out, which all show FRS 17 disclosures to show the liability the companies hold in their pension scheme.
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:confused:


vonhelmet said:
Yes, some are in a surplus position. Many are not.
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The overall position is of surplus though, you have to recognise this.

Many are in defecit but not singularly because it is a final salary scheme in itself. Pensions have been raided more times than my fridge in various manifestations.
 
LOAM said:
Yeah because 8 - 3:30 is such a bind.
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No teacher ever does marking or planning during term time?

LOAM said:
Give me a break. I work 80 hour weeks. Does a teacher know what an 80 hour week feels like?
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If you don't like it, change jobs. I'm private sector and I'd never work an 80 hour week if I could avoid it.

LOAM said:
Is my pension protected from economic down turn? My god. In the last year alone I have had to increase my pension payments, why because nothing is performing well at the moment. And seriously don’t cry about pay freeze’s have you looked out the window recently? I don’t know a person who hasn’t had a salary reduction or is facing redundancy.

Come back and demand change when there’s an economic situation that warrants it, not when we are all on our knees.
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Hey, I'm not defending the pension thing, if you read my other posts. I'm just saying that conflating it with the argument that teachers have it easy vs. teachers have it so hard isn't helpful when the real question is whether final salary schemes are at all feasible.

LOAM said:
oh and 21>2 ;)
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Like I said, we're arguing over whose anecdotal evidence trumps whose.
 
Alpherah said:
I regularly go out for drinks with a bunch of teachers, they all agree its basically impossible to get sacked in this country, as a teacher.
They've worked with some truly awful teachers, all that happens is they get moved to a different school, department .. whatever, until they pull standards down there, then get moved on again.
So yes, removing the GTC, was stupid. The excuse of its not actually doing anything, so lets remove it, was unbelievably daft. How about you make sure its doing its job instead?
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This may be the case in England/Wales but is certainly not the case in Scotland. Every teacher is given a chance to improve through additional training but if they do not improve they will be removed from the GTC register. This means they cannot get a job as a teacher anywhere else in mainstream education.

Removing the GTC in England was political. What was the ultimate aim??
 
Walked past the picket line this morning (8am) to see staff there that would never normally be there until after 10am!!
 
do_ron_ron said:
This may be the case in England/Wales but is certainly not the case in Scotland. Every teacher is given a chance to improve through additional training but if they do not improve they will be removed from the GTC register. This means they cannot get a job as a teacher anywhere else in mainstream education.

Removing the GTC in England was political. What was the ultimate aim??
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This is the case in England. You pretty much have to sexually abuse a student to get in trouble/sacked down here.
 
Biohazard said:
:confused:
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Could you post something more than just smilies and one word answers?

Biohazard said:
The overall position is of surplus though, you have to recognise this.
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In private sector pension schemes? If they were all in surplus, they wouldn't be doing their level best to close them and push people into defined contribution.

Biohazard said:
Many are in defecit but not singularly because it is a final salary scheme in itself. Pensions have been raided more times than my fridge in various manifestations.
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Well, true. Pretty shameful in some case.
 
Alpherah said:
You clearly know some pretty craptastic teachers.
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I work in schools all around the country. Its the older generation who are real teachers but they are getting fewer in numbers.

Seriously some of planning and prep work really is last minute or non existant in some cases. I have lost count of the times ive had to recover teachers work plans done at 7.30am on monday morning.
 
Alpherah said:
Yus he did indeed.
Stated also that most members of the armed forced only joined for an easy life, because of living in a period where the chance of war was exceptionally slim to none.

.. and then 9/11 came along.
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Well yes, that is true. Although loads joined because of 9/11, and now they are pooing in their pants because they wish they never even dreamed up the idea
 
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