A Mustang with a live axle beating an R8 and M3? Surely not possible!!

nucastle said:
So a tweaked car, is better than a stock car? Easily enough done wouldnt you say?

How about a tweaked mustang, versus a tweaked M3 (GTS) as a true comparison. Remember these are special editions being compared here, as opposed to the version they sell to 99% of everyone else. ;)
Click to expand...

thing is, people say that the mustang can never handle because its american, and has a live rear axle and has the suspension from a cart (just a selection of the usual tuner v muscle insults) but this simply isn't true.

If the Stock Mustang can't handle, its because its not designed to. The stock mustang V6 is almost ford mondeo coupe like in its market position. The cheapest one is $22,000, the same as the cheapest ford taurus ! Its obviously not a mondeo coupe, but the price they are selling the bottom of the range ones at, it almost could be.

In this context, you have to bear in mind that the M3 is the top of the range model in the 3 series coupe range and costs over $58,000 base price. The Boss 302 mustang by comparison, is the top of the Mustang range, yet only starts at $40,000
 
I love being a 2 minute drive from Bill Shepherd Mustang.

I hate insurance companies for refusing to insure me on a Mustang.
 
Its just a shame that these don't manage to get over on these shores without adding a ridiculous amount extra to the price. A quick look shows that the basic Mustang V6 is £14,000. A 300BHP, V6 Sports/Muscle car for Hyundai I30 money. Or this 302. A M3 contender (performance wise at least) for £30k.

Problem is that it'll arrive on these shores and the $40000 will have turned into £40000 and you have the added hassle of finding someone who is happy to work on them, have no warranty, have to deal with a LHD car, etc, then they don't look nearly as attractive to anybody other than the hardcore enthusiast.
 
Joshy said:
Its just a shame that these don't manage to get over on these shores without adding a ridiculous amount extra to the price. A quick look shows that the basic Mustang V6 is £14,000. A 300BHP, V6 Sports/Muscle car for Hyundai I30 money. Or this 302. A M3 contender (performance wise at least) for £30k.

Problem is that it'll arrive on these shores and the $40000 will have turned into £40000 and you have the added hassle of finding someone who is happy to work on them, have no warranty, have to deal with a LHD car, etc, then they don't look nearly as attractive to anybody other than hardcore enthusiast.
Click to expand...

bear in mind the US always quote prices without tax as they vary from state to state

You are in effect being shown the ex VAT price, hence why i compared with other american market prices, rather than converting back to £ to compare with other european models like the M3.
 
Raymond Lin said:
£14k + VAT = £16,800 + Shipping + Import Tax (?)

300BHP for under £20k?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure of the precise costs but It'd come to a lot more than that.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2193672.htm

I know its a 'special edition' and at a dealer, but I don't think their mark up is a full £10k.

This is the problem with american cars here. Good buy at even £20k, but at £30k? Brand new you've got the likes of the 370Z and used you're comfortably in the realms of E92 M3s, which happen to have the steering wheel on the right side, where it does come with a warranty (or can be easily added for a token sum), a ready supply of people who can repair them... And they are better all rounder cars.

Unless you're a secret american you've got to take a step back and wonder what's the point?
 
Last edited:
nucastle said:
So a tweaked car, is better than a stock car? Easily enough done wouldnt you say?

How about a tweaked mustang, versus a tweaked M3 (GTS) as a true comparison. Remember these are special editions being compared here, as opposed to the version they sell to 99% of everyone else. ;)
Click to expand...


Some facts!

The M3 tested here had the competition package BMW offer which makes it perfect for comparing against Fords BOSS 302 which is a Mustang you order via any Ford dealer in the US, this is how it comes.

Also you say tweaked M3, you do realise the M3 is a tweaked 3 series, its at the top-end of the scale and the M3 GTS is an all out designed for track car, so if anything its more comparable with the Leguna Seca version of the BOSS 302 which laps 2s or so faster.

Lets also look at something else, the M3 GTS is £120,000 so why your even mentioning this car is baffling, you could buy 3-4 of these Mustangs for the price of one M3 GTS.

The new Mustang 5.0 V8 with the track pack fitted which is the run of the mill Mustang with that box ticked has been shown to match the M3 without competition package in lap times, again hugely cheaper though.

The Mustang BOSS 302 which is a special edition but in good supply laps faster than an M3 with competition package and cost substancially less and like the M3 is fine on the road too.

The BOSS 302 Leguna Seca is the designated track car, which is said to be a further 2s lap per faster and would be the one you'd compare against the GTS, but fact is the M3 GTS is not compared because it cost 3x more making your argument very flawed as for the price of one M3 GTS, you could buy a regular M3, a BOSS 302 Mustang and still have substancial money left over.
 
Gibbo said:
so why your even mentioning this car is baffling, you could buy 3-4 of these Mustangs for the price of one M3 GTS.
Click to expand...

he's trying to think of an excuse. and the old "ah yes but you're testing a tweaked / tuned mustang vs a standard one" is an easy card to play if your in denial about how good the mustang actually is.

Stupid thing is, despite the price tag gap, i reckon the Boss 302 Laguna Seca would still fancy its chances against the GTS. The Boss lapped laguna seca 2 seconds quicker than the M3. The Boss 302 laguna seca edition is another 2 seconds a lap quicker.

Thats 4 seconds quicker than the Stock M3 on a 1:40 track. GTS might be a second or two quicker, but given the price differential ...
 
Its a race circuit with a race driver such that the car is setup for ultimate grip NOT progressive handling attributes for Joe Bloggs on the road. I see even less correlation between a test like this and road manners compared to the often criticised 'ring times.
 
Gibbo said:
Some facts!
Click to expand...

rut8x7mryf044gw1lye6c10pvt89ts7mi6hx.gif


:D:D:D
 
Gibbo said:
Some facts!

The M3 tested here had the competition package BMW offer which makes it perfect for comparing against Fords BOSS 302 which is a Mustang you order via any Ford dealer in the US, this is how it comes.

Also you say tweaked M3, you do realise the M3 is a tweaked 3 series, its at the top-end of the scale and the M3 GTS is an all out designed for track car, so if anything its more comparable with the Leguna Seca version of the BOSS 302 which laps 2s or so faster.

Lets also look at something else, the M3 GTS is £120,000 so why your even mentioning this car is baffling, you could buy 3-4 of these Mustangs for the price of one M3 GTS.

The new Mustang 5.0 V8 with the track pack fitted which is the run of the mill Mustang with that box ticked has been shown to match the M3 without competition package in lap times, again hugely cheaper though.

The Mustang BOSS 302 which is a special edition but in good supply laps faster than an M3 with competition package and cost substancially less and like the M3 is fine on the road too.

The BOSS 302 Leguna Seca is the designated track car, which is said to be a further 2s lap per faster and would be the one you'd compare against the GTS, but fact is the M3 GTS is not compared because it cost 3x more making your argument very flawed as for the price of one M3 GTS, you could buy a regular M3, a BOSS 302 Mustang and still have substancial money left over.
Click to expand...

I kind of see your point, and i know the GTS was an extreme example .... maybe compare it to the M3 CSL as a deliberate 'track' variant of a model. The M3 is a '3 series' for sure, but i wouldnt quite say it was a 'tweaked' one, unless of course you want to have a discussion on semantics - There aint much of the bog standard models remaining in the M3 ... unless you count the cup holders.

Euro cars will never be able to match the USA on price eh. It's a lot of car for the money, but they will always find it hard to shake the feeling that most of their motors are engineered with drag racer types who only care about 1/4 mile numbers and raw BHP figures which may or may not mean nothing on the actual roads. No doubt things are gradually improving - but the USA has a long way to go before they shake that image (whether or not it is warranted these days). And they need to take the leaf springs out of their corvettes first ;)

With that, i can't quite see how a hot 'stang can be compared to the M3. Unless of course sales reps and execs drive Boss 302 Mustangs over in the states ;)
 
MrLOL said:
he's trying to think of an excuse. and the old "ah yes but you're testing a tweaked / tuned mustang vs a standard one" is an easy card to play if your in denial about how good the mustang actually is.
Click to expand...

Denial? Nah - That mustang looks awesome, but i just can't quite see how it's next best rival is the BMW M3. Totally different cars engineered for, and marketed at completely different people.

Maybe they should have compared it with the Impreza or Evo type offerings, which are cars on the 'extreme' end of the market.
 
Thing is, we think of the mustang as being some big V8 sportscar. But its just not

Take the dodge charger - its currently a boring mundane saloon. The dodge challenger muscle car, uses a shortened version of the charger platform.

The bog standard mustang, costs the same as a bog standard taurus. The bog standard mustang competes effectively with something like the BMW 320 coupe. It can't compete on build quality, and its inherently american and trying to appeal to a different audience, but its the same sort of deal.

The Mustang GT and the Boss are just top of the rang versions of a range of a range of cars, like the M3 is the top of the range model of the 3 series coupes.

You won't see sales reps driving M3s up and down the motorway, in the same way you won't see sales reps driving Mustang GTs up and down the motorway.
 
hurfdurf said:
A lot of experience with the South and Mid USA does one?
Click to expand...

My particular area of expertise lies more in the northern states and canadian provinces, with regard to their unique social anthropological variances in automobile choice and demographics.

Indeed i will stand corrected of course, if it is the case that fast mustangs are indeed marketed at the same kind of people BMW market their cars for.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom