*****Official Star Wars: The Old Republic Thread*****

ChrisJSY said:
I see a lot of people against damage meters, I could assume it's because you hate the elitism it breeds, although very bad players will get spotted regardless. But I want to use it for my own good, so I wish it was self only at least.

Why don't you want it?
Click to expand...

Both Tombstone and Redman have explained my thoughts on damage and threat meters rather well.
 
Damage meters, Computer Benchmarks, Rolling Road for cars, exercise/weight charts, it's what I do, I like to number crunch sometimes. I like to see changes and my effort making a real difference in stats.

Redman said:
Might as well turn the game into a spreadsheet with all the aids available for WoW. UI's are overcomplicated & over-relied upon. Threat meters, damage meters, group/raid healing aids.

Damage meters are for bragging, and encourage an all out button rotation style of play for big numbers rather than paying attention to what's going on around then and reacting if necessary. I suppose this is fine in pve.
Click to expand...

It does not aid gameplay instantaneously or have this immediate effect, I need to do something about it, it's numbers on a screen, I am not talking about anything else other than damage meters. I'm not talking about WoW either.
Some of us aren't elitist, bragging players who can't pay attention. Also don't think for a moment I need them to play, that would be silly! :p

"Damage meters are for bragging" - Are ultimately? That's the only reason?

What worries me is the statement about it encouraging button rotations, yet you fail to acknowledge why they exist in reality.

Some classes in some MMOs actually depend on rotations and it's a style of play and the betterment of your characters performance. You don't have to do it, of course.

But to think of it negatively because it's your opinion doesn't mean it's actually a bad thing.


Tombstone said:
I'm not hugely fond of damage meters myself I must admit (we did perfectly well in MMOs before they were invented). I think because of the elitism it breeds as you mention.

...ultimately I want people to want me in their groups because I am fun, not because I get over a certain "score" on something. I happily wipe 50 times on something as long as I am having a laugh with people doing it,
Click to expand...

I was using damage meters in 2001-2002ish.

Whilst I understand you want to join groups for fun, as much as I do, I'll be mostly playing with people I know in real life so it doesn't matter personally, I'd like it to be there to see how I progress in the levels damage wise and compare it to my friends and if possible, make myself better at my in game job.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to play better, anyone who says otherwise has no place in the discussion, I think we can all agree trying to be a better player is anything but bad.

I agree with you though, there are really crazy people out there who expect too much, you need to learn to deal with it and ignore them.
 
I so want this, but just dont know if I can.... My PC is about 5 years old so its going to be an expensive game to play...

I have become, sadly more of a 360 player now, but I do much prefer the PC for gaming, though the only two games I know I want are Diablo 3 and SW:TOR, so not sure I can justify an upgrade...

Jcb33.
 
jcb33 said:
I so want this, but just dont know if I can.... My PC is about 5 years old so its going to be an expensive game to play...

I have become, sadly more of a 360 player now, but I do much prefer the PC for gaming, though the only two games I know I want are Diablo 3 and SW:TOR, so not sure I can justify an upgrade...

Jcb33.
Click to expand...

That depends on how much time you will put into both games, if it's a lot of time, then it will be the worth the upgrade for sure.
 
Well I just read addons have been confirmed by devs so addons are going to be in the game.

I personally can understand where some people are coming from saying they dont want them and how they spoil the game, in many ways. I saw some of this myself in wow.

The worst thing was probably that ilvl because people would judge other people on their ilvl...it never effected me because I always raided and always had good gear but I saw it effect other people...and just seems stupid because I remember many times in wow when I'd have worse gear then other people whilst levelling or be lower level yet would do better damage then others so level and gear didnt always mean better.

ilvl doesn't = newbie to a certain degree, obviously if ilvl is major low then you know the guy isn't going to have really good gear which couldnt effect his performance but then again you dont know how good that guy is, how much skill he/she has...also if its only a little bit lower then yours then still its hard to tell...but people in wow took ilvl as fact and ruled out everything else which was just stupid.

EDIT: Also another thing I noticed over years in raids, people become lazy, especially dps, and would just ride it out and not put 100% effort into dps and just press 2 buttons...and go AFK etc...and so it would be even easier to beat those people on dps meters...so that takes gear completly out the equation...theres probably loads more examples that I cant think of right now too.

I personally though really like to change my UI and because I'm into PVE raids I like damage and threat meters...not too fussed about anything else.
 
ChrisJSY said:
I was using damage meters in 2001-2002ish.

Whilst I understand you want to join groups for fun, as much as I do, I'll be mostly playing with people I know in real life so it doesn't matter personally, I'd like it to be there to see how I progress in the levels damage wise and compare it to my friends and if possible, make myself better at my in game job.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to play better, anyone who says otherwise has no place in the discussion, I think we can all agree trying to be a better player is anything but bad.

I agree with you though, there are really crazy people out there who expect too much, you need to learn to deal with it and ignore them.
Click to expand...

Ultimately it doesnt bother me much if they do include them, people who knock me for my stats are just people I never group with again so they lose out not me :)

Yeah it merely comes down to individual playstyles, I've never been much of a stathound so how much damage I am doing or how that compares to others doesnt interest me, all that interests me is if I'm having a laugh ;)

I'm not particularly bothered even about becoming a better player so to speak, in the 4 years I was in UO (and had by far and away my best ever MMO experiences over the last 15 years) I never really became a better player. At least not attribute-wise, I did become one of the best known players on the server I was on, but that was more for my RP and the ingame festivals and events I ran.
 
ChrisJSY said:
Damage meters, Computer Benchmarks, Rolling Road for cars, exercise/weight charts, it's what I do, I like to number crunch sometimes. I like to see changes and my effort making a real difference in stats.

It does not aid gameplay instantaneously or have this immediate effect, I need to do something about it, it's numbers on a screen, I am not talking about anything else other than damage meters. I'm not talking about WoW either.
Some of us aren't elitist, bragging players who can't pay attention. Also don't think for a moment I need them to play, that would be silly! :p

"Damage meters are for bragging" - Are ultimately? That's the only reason?

What worries me is the statement about it encouraging button rotations, yet you fail to acknowledge why they exist in reality.

Some classes in some MMOs actually depend on rotations and it's a style of play and the betterment of your characters performance. You don't have to do it, of course.

But to think of it negatively because it's your opinion doesn't mean it's actually a bad thing.
Click to expand...


There's nothing inherantly wrong with such 'aids' of course, it's the style of play it encourages & pandering to a very specific min/max set, which then propagates down the food chain & negatively impacts other players & their game experiences. These things are rarely only used in the way you describe.

As I said, I play mmorpg's for pvp, so I have a different viewpoint to many. My comment about the button rotation is aimed at this apsect. Developing a mindset of a+b+c+d+a+b+c+d=win in pve only serves to reduce situational thinking, planning & reacting in many players. It's too contrived and too rigid for my liking, and all too often leads to panic when presented with a pvp situation when the normal rules don't always apply. Not all cases obviously, but I've seen a fair few players get very confused when they have to play a little differently - of course this is fun when they're on the other side ;)

I guess I just don't like the thought of generic ways to play classes, and more potently, those specific ways being measurable outside of the individuals screen, which are then mainly used for bragging, or worse, unjustified criticism. Just to reiterate, I'm a fan of self measurement, that's great for refining your playstyle.

Now obviously, you're right in that there are always ideal ways to play classes in certain situations. It's when these methods are used in *every* situation that it gets on my nerves, and this does happen! And often causes issue in pvp pick-up groups, which then reduces the likelihood of random pick-up groups forming, reducing pvp outside of guilds.

Self measurement is great, outside of that it's too often used as a stick to beat people with, and in that way, it's detrimental to any community.

But I really detest threat meters ;)
 
Tombstone said:
Ultimately it doesnt bother me much if they do include them, people who knock me for my stats are just people I never group with again so they lose out not me :)

Yeah it merely comes down to individual playstyles, I've never been much of a stathound so how much damage I am doing or how that compares to others doesnt interest me, all that interests me is if I'm having a laugh ;)

I'm not particularly bothered even about becoming a better player so to speak, in the 4 years I was in UO (and had by far and away my best ever MMO experiences over the last 15 years) I never really became a better player. At least not attribute-wise, I did become one of the best known players on the server I was on, but that was more for my RP and the ingame festivals and events I ran.
Click to expand...

You dont sound like a hardcore raider mate, not sure if your into pve or pvp but there has been times when we've had to remove people from the raid in our guild on bosses where we needed maximum dps output and their damage has been way below everyone elses...so it does matter in pve raids, especially on some bosses...just like we had to remove some people from raids that made too many mistakes or just simply couldn't fullfill the role of their class.
 
That's why WoW is such a horrible game when it comes to community. Doesn't matter if you're friendly, helpful and generally a good influence on the guild. If you don't have time to gear up and crunch the numbers, you're a liability.
 
SkScotchegg said:
You dont sound like a hardcore raider mate, not sure if your into pve or pvp but there has been times when we've had to remove people from the raid in our guild on bosses where we needed maximum dps output and their damage has been way below everyone elses...so it does matter in pve raids, especially on some bosses...just like we had to remove some people from raids that made too many mistakes or just simply couldn't fullfill the role of their class.
Click to expand...

You're right, I'm not a hardcore raider. I'm into PvE and PvP, but predominately I'm into PvP. I prefer the dynamics of PvP over the (as I see them) static PvE encounters (never quite understood why big supposedly elite champion bosses allow themselves to be taunted, its quite clear the metal guy in front of you is being healed, so go slap the healer instead and stick on him until he is dead duh). I have raided before, casually, and I do enjoy doing dungeons and questing but at the days end its the PvP quality of an MMO (or lack of it) which dictates how long I will play for. (except of course for UO which was simply the greatest MMO ever for the sheer degree of freedom to do whatever , whenever you wanted and was the closest MMO to what an RPG should be about imo)

I understand of course that heavy raiders have reasons for such things, legitimate reasons if they want to succeed at what they aim for. Its just different players have different aims. In the past I've been kicked from dungeon groups for not having the "right" gear, thats fair enough, their choice of course. Its just that their aim was to "do" the dungeon, preferably as quickly and flawlessly as possible, whereas my aim was just to have a laugh regardless of the outcome :)
 
Last edited:
Redman said:
all too often leads to panic when presented with a pvp situation when the normal rules don't always apply. Not all cases obviously, but I've seen a fair few players get very confused when they have to play a little differently - of course this is fun when they're on the other side ;)
Click to expand...

Funnily enough I encountered that exact situation many a time in UO and Daoc, lost count of the number of times I saw a player just go into panic mode when the target (be it me or another player) behaved in a way they werent expecting. One of the most noticeable ways used to be when someone would use some CC and the target player would immediately dispell it and counterattack, you could see the original player panic or pause momentarily because they werent used to their targets immediately dispelling and continuing to attack. In Daoc it was particularly noticeable in the frontiers, you could very quickly tell the people who hadnt set foot in the frontiers before and encountered a human player ambushing them and those who had.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom