Tests claim few benefit claimants 'unfit to work'

[big_white_dog84]

I have very mixed feelings about this. As a taxpayer I take no pleasure in seeing the 'deductions' figure on my salary slip, knowing that a significant chunk of this money is going to people who are sitting on their backsides all day. However I don't trust any Tory initiative to fairly assess a person's ability to work, and decide whether or not they should be in receipt of incapacity benefit / ESA.

Let's say I have a brain disorder that gives my crippling headaches 80% of the time. These headaches are so severe that I need to go and lie down in a dark room, tanked up with painkillers. The government's assessment would say that I was fit to work 20% of the time and therefore should have part time employment. If I was provided with 'support' in the form of a dark room to lie down in then there is no reason I can't work. I would be taken off ESA and put onto Jobseekers allowance - and expected to find an employer who would provide me with this 'support' myself.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

I would be taken off ESA and put onto Jobseekers allowance - and expected to find an employer who would provide me with this 'support' myself.

Or you could work from home.

Also, I think you misunderstand the ESA assessment - they wouldn't require you to work 'the % of time you don't have headaches'. Doesn't work like that. If the headaches were that severe and that frequent, you'd be on full sick.

 

[PU7E]

My Dad has a condition where his spine is crumbling, any kind of moving is extremely painful, he's drugged up to the eyeballs just to cope with the pain and won't be long before he loses control of the lower half of his body, yet the benefits office claim he's fit for ANY work, WITHOUT any form of medical assessment, NO contact with his GP and to top it all off they refuse to goto an appeal tribunal till March next year!

But at least the stat's look good on paper, while in the mean time people are forced to look for non-exsistant work they simply can't do and then get blamed for being a benefit fraud...

 

[Amp34]

From what I've seen thus far it's more indicative of a terribly broken assessment system than a case of a majority abusing the system.

A bit of both I from the sounds of it. The system may not be broken but it is tougher than the original system so how many of those that failed were rightfully able to claim on the old system is unknown to us.

ESA are a bunch of *****!

My mum was not only a self harmer, needed long term psychogical help had the letters, she also has a PFO and paralitic migrains which could strike at anytime. They said she was fit for work and the tribunal failed.

Tossers, they are pretty much even trying to force fully disabled people into work as it looks good for stats!




Like myself, i was under a full work scheme and ready to go into volunteer work .The government made the entire scheme redundent and every person that worked in the company was thrown out to look for work, there is NO help for autisic people until september at the earliest when the scheme was working before.

GOVERNMENT/ESA ARE TOSSERS END OF

What has self harming got to do with not working? Same with migraines? Why can she not work round that in a job that will not be affected by these things? One of the problems I forsee with this is the number of people that have assumed they will never work again but now have to. Getting back into that working mindset is very difficult, for those that were on IB or for those that are long term unemployed.

Out of interest is blindness one of the things that classes you as eligable to not have to work? Same with being confined to a wheelchair due to paralysis of the lower body (for example)? I'm intrigued as it doesn't stop them actually working some jobs so for uncomplicated cases and as such arguably in those cases they should have to work.

No reason for the 36% was given. They could have been unable to complete the assessment, failed to understand what was needed of them or some of those who have lost their benefits because the assessment agencies overbooked their slots. It's pure assumption that they're involved in fraud.

Exactly, it even says that in the article, which to me kinda makes me think some people haven't actually read it...

 

[ZG002]

So many stories like mine and the one above. Yet the people who are actually committing the fraud lie through their teeth on the assessment and remain on the sick.

 

[arknor]

Or you could work from home.

Also, I think you misunderstand the ESA assessment - they wouldn't require you to work 'the % of time you don't have headaches'. Doesn't work like that. If the headaches were that severe and that frequent, you'd be on full sick.

i know they are chucking loads of people back to the slaughter who have genuine mental health problems

 

[Swifty123]

I love how they were moved onto job seekers allowance ....

 

[ZG002]

I love how they were moved onto job seekers allowance ....

They get less ££ for being on it.

 

[Glaucus]

I can't say I'm surprised at all, just becuase you are unfit for one type of work, doesn't mean you aren't fit for another. They weren't scamming the system. The system just allowed it.
However there is a problem of finding the correct job for the person. Especially if there ailment stops them doing what they are suited to. For example someone with a back problem and no social skills, can't do mahal labour, but is unlikely to be hired in most office based jobs.

 

[Scrutinize]

as long as the claimants get a fair deal at work, the support they need and a challenging, rewarding and not forced to the bottom of the employment chain in a totally demining job I am all for it.

the reality is most jobs fail to support people without any disabilities well enough, let alone those incapacitated though disabilities whether physical or mental. for that reason, I am concerned about this.

the financial and time cost of putting support in place may mean a long transition period to get this right and what happens when people on incapacity benefit are made to go back to work who really won’t cope and end up signed off or back on benefits, this will cost the company money in absence cover, recruitment, training, counselling, legal challenges etc etc

oh and the big one, there aren’t enough jobs for people not claiming incapacity benefits, what happens when even more people come back into the job market, over saturation, higher unemployment and so on,

 

[arknor]

I can't say I'm surprised at all, just becuase you are unfit for one type of work, doesn't mean you aren't fit for another. They weren't scamming the system. The system just allowed it.
However there is a problem of finding the correct job for the person. Especially if there ailment stops them doing what they are suited to. For example someone with a back problem and no social skills, can't do mahal labour, but is unlikely to be hired in most office based jobs.

the problem is everyone on job seekers are forced to apply for crap jobs they arent suited for and not given the proper help they need

 

[Glaucus]

d and a challenging, rewarding and not forced to the bottom of the employment chain in a totally demining job I am all for it.

,

wtf you can't mean that. Plenty of honest working people are stuck in such jobs and do it as they have to, why should these people be any different. You do any job you can get hold of, how ever much you hate it.

To many people think they're worth more than they are.

 

[ZG002]

Yep, My aunt is on job seekers and just applies for anything. No one cares as long as she applies

The job seekers is very broken imo, But then it would take a lot of work and money to make it work as it should.

 

[arknor]

wtf you can't mean that. Plenty of honest working people are stuck in such jobs and do it as they have to, why should these people be any different. You do any job you can get hold of, how ever much you hate it.

To many people think they're worth more than they are.

i dont know exactly what he means but for example people with autism are forced to apply for bar jobs , tesco jobs etc its a massive waste of time they have no chance of ever getting employed in a job that needs social skills.

 

[bonehead666]

I wondered if anyone was assesed on previous mental health disabilities or can depressed people now go to work like it or lump it, that may account for some of the 36% that did'nt turn up ??

 

[Glaucus]

i dont know exactly what he means but for example people with autism are forced to apply for bar jobs , tesco jobs etc its a massive waste of time they have no chance of ever getting employed in a job that needs social skills.

I don't think that's what he means at all and I said that's a problem in my first post.
I think he means exactly that people shouldn't be forced into dead end boring jobs. Of course they should.
Should cut benefits back to real world levels and see how many want to stay on it. Make people share cheap houses/flats and barely enough to live on, let alone any luxuries. Just like many people who have jobs, have to do. then see how many claimants there are and how few wouldn't such and progress themselves. But that's more general rather than people with problems.

 

[arknor]

maybe if there were enough suitable jobs for everyone on jobseekers that wouldnt be a problem

 

[Glaucus]

maybe if there were enough suitable jobs for everyone on jobseekers that wouldnt be a problem

What do you mean by suitable?
There's not enough suitable jobs for people already working. Plenty of people in dead end boring jobs they hate, but they still do it and everyone should. Your only worth, what the Market will pay you.

 

[arknor]

What do you mean by suitable?
There's not enough suitable jobs for people already working. Plenty of people in dead end boring jobs they hate, but they still do it and everyone should. Your only worth, what the Market will pay you.

by suitable i mean jobs that they have the qualifications and experience to be considered a real potential candidate for.

the world isnt full of minimum wage jobs they get filled pretty quickly , even for dead end crap jobs a lot of people arent considered because they have been out of work for so long etc, its not always easy to find work if you dont have much going for you as a lot of people on benefits dont

 

[Neil79]

What has self harming got to do with not working? Same with migraines? Why can she not work round that in a job that will not be affected by these things? One of the problems I forsee with this is the number of people that have assumed they will never work again but now have to. Getting back into that working mindset is very difficult, for those that were on IB or for those that are long term unemployed.

It's people like you that'd be great in the benefits office!

She is under long term psycholigcal counciling AND a PFO which gives her a much her risk of a stroke. I didn't say migrains i said Paralitic migrains, in other words she could be at work and bam!, Can't see and can't move half her body. Could happen at any time...

Both doctors and heart specialist said " not safe to work ", the Government said " Yes she is ".

I'm not going to get into arguments with this though, it's pointless