**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

Question of questions, what's the best way to get 'better' at the game? I'm currently in Bronze, and use my own 'build' which is basically pretty standard, build probes, gateways, robo early for observers scouting, then either get a robo bay for giraffes or go air for carriers. I watch day9s vids to try and absorb useful things, and its working to an extent, especially the Daily #252?
But often when I play I've got this list of things I need to do, build probes, chronoboost, watch over there, build pylons (The 18 pylon is the bane of my life!)

I know what I need to be doing, but its just doing all the macro that I can't quite keep up with. I know most of its just a case of learning through repetition, the more I do the better I'll be at it, but are there any general tips that would help?

Practice, practice, practice! It's worth taking a bit of time to leave multiplayer and play against the computer or with people you know, really iron out exactly what the beginning of the game looks and feels like.

The 18 pylon used to be annoying for me too, but through experience and not a lot of time spent in practice with it I know exactly when I need it under any circumstance, and the best way to get it out at a decent time in a 'standard' build. Once you know what you're going in to do, then you'll be able to make decisions faster (most of the early game decisions will have been made before the game even started!), and you'll naturally play faster.

Later on, you want to start getting into a rhythm of habit. For example, I compulsively hit my nexus/command centre hotkey after any actionset that I do to check on probes/scvs, it feels incredibly weird not to do this (i.e. when I dont want to build probes/scvs any more). Similarly with hatcheries, but it's a bit simpler with zerg.


I need to take some time out to bring my mechanics with Protoss up to where I want them to be, so if you like we can do some customs and try to iron out your early game and get a rhythm going :)

VoidPtr.167 if needed and I tend to hang around the OcUK chat channel when I'm online.
 
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Question of questions, what's the best way to get 'better' at the game? I'm currently in Bronze, and use my own 'build' which is basically pretty standard, build probes, gateways, robo early for observers scouting, then either get a robo bay for giraffes or go air for carriers. I watch day9s vids to try and absorb useful things, and its working to an extent, especially the Daily #252?
But often when I play I've got this list of things I need to do, build probes, chronoboost, watch over there, build pylons (The 18 pylon is the bane of my life!)

I know what I need to be doing, but its just doing all the macro that I can't quite keep up with. I know most of its just a case of learning through repetition, the more I do the better I'll be at it, but are there any general tips that would help?

its not all about the mechanics though, to get better you need to be able to read your opponent - think about what he could be going for and countering. thats how you really get better - you can have the best macro in the world but if you build totally the wrong units to your OPs build you will always lose.

An example of a game i played yesterday (me P, he T):
Went 13 gateway, 14 gas, 16 pylon then into a 3 gate - pushed his ramp on 3 stalkers saw he had a bunker and backed off,
warped in 3 more stalkers and felt like a little push - didnt work lost 3 stalkers and retreated.
Saw he was coming after me so got 2 sentries and FF'd my ramp twice each time letting in 3 units of his to kill - he retreated after the second time, saw his army was mostly maruders.
Got a probe and scouted his nat - saw he was expanding so i did to.
built 6 voids out of 2 stargates, then teched to blink, armour1 and got templars with storm.
Probe also then went to the other side of the map and stayed there - why? so i could scout his medidrop when it happened (bc it was inevitable)
Medi drop was inc as scouted by random probe, got voids there and killed 5 fully loaded medis and the last one dropped with only 2 units - easy clear up.
(if my probe wasnt in that position to scout , i would have lost my base and probably a lot of strucutres and it would have been GG there. so that 50mineral probe effectively turned into a worth of over 1500 and a lot of gas ;) )

After that the game was over for my OP, i got a few more templars and pushed, scouted with a zealot first - again he was mass maurder, so stormed 5 times and 1A'd everything else

Easy win........bc i knew exactly what he was doing 99% of the time and essentially could see into the games future.

Needless to say doesnt always go my way, but you get the idea.

Losing a lot helps, as long as you learn from it. I dont tend to watch videos any more bc i generally find them more fluff then content, they dont teach you to think independantly just how to do build order X which 80% of people laddering do or doesnt work in lower leagues bc its a rush game, Streams are ok though.
 
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Losing a lot helps, as long as you learn from it. I dont tend to watch videos any more bc i generally find them more fluff then content, they dont teach you to think independantly just how to do build order X which 80% of people laddering do or doesnt work in lower leagues bc its a rush game, Streams are ok though.

Agreed - my scouting has improved and subsequently my gameplay has improved.

I used to have a standard 3 rax's, factory, stargate build from various youtube videos etc.

However I've developed a my own build which I can move into any tech/route i need based on early scouting. Something that I used to not do!!

Yesterday I was play against Terran a lot (I'm Terran) and at the moment the flavour seems to be loads of tanks and a few marines.

I FE'd and then went gas mad to get 6 banshee's, cloaked and went after the tanks, he only had about 10 marines protecting 6 tanks and with 6 banshee's cloaked i took out the marines so he had no protection for the tanks and they got one shotted by 6 banshees. Game over.

It's all about learning what your opponent is likely/going to do and reacting to that as best you can.
 
Getting out of bronze for me was basically a mixture of what people have already mentioned. As you said your macro feels off in bronze, and getting used to the macro side of things is one of the biggest ways to get promoted. Don't change your build too much, just change little bits at a time and see how it goes. Also if I'm feeling rusty or slow on the macro I play a few games vs. CPU first and just practice purely building up to 3/4 bases vs very hard/insane, so it forces you to expand while surviving at the same time, don't worry about scouting/attacking the CPU too much when you just want to warm up your macro for MP. By time I got to late silver I started to macro up without thinking about it, as you said you need to repeat what you do enough so that macro becomes automatic, and the tactics/scouting/countering etc becomes your focus instead. I'm not saying you'll be perfect, not even pro's keep perfect macro. But macro has to become like riding a bike, you wouldn't think about your feet if riding a bike, you'd be watching the road and cars ;P
 
Just got one of my students into platinum league last night, started coaching on 3rd.. completely new to the game and into platinum league in 8 days. Proud of the guy. :)
 
Just got one of my students into platinum league last night, started coaching on 3rd.. completely new to the game and into platinum league in 8 days. Proud of the guy. :)

That is pretty impressive, what league did he qualify for in the beginning and what league are you in ;o?
Also race?
 
That is pretty impressive, what league did he qualify for in the beginning and what league are you in ;o?
Also race?

He was completely new to the game, did his first 5 placement matches last night and won 4/lost 1, so he got put into platinum. Plays Zerg.

I'm diamond but I don't really ladder as much as I should, I could probably make masters. I can play any race but usually I play Zerg on ladder.
 
that explains enough :p

Yeah if he played Toss or Terran he'd be diamond ;)

Did anyone watch the latin BI last night?

Killer basically lost to the exact same thing i was talking about last night on crossfire, Thors/Hellions/Tanks, especially on crossfire with very narrow passageways its very hard to get a surround and if u go lings through the front hellions will just melt them all in seconds.

EDIT: Hate how true this is becoming - http://i.imgur.com/cYG88.png
 
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its not all about the mechanics though, to get better you need to be able to read your opponent - think about what he could be going for and countering. thats how you really get better - you can have the best macro in the world but if you build totally the wrong units to your OPs build you will always lose.

Oh most certainly, but if you don't have the macro foundation you will never reach the higher levels of gameplay. It's not too difficult to learn what beats what, and when it comes to scouting it's a lot easier to learn timings in a well ironed out opening and be able to respond accordingly.
 
He was completely new to the game, did his first 5 placement matches last night and won 4/lost 1, so he got put into platinum. Plays Zerg.

I'm diamond but I don't really ladder as much as I should, I could probably make masters. I can play any race but usually I play Zerg on ladder.

Nice.

Feeling much the same at the moment in my league, really should be playing more :o
 
Thanks for the pointers guys. Alex, I may take you up on that. Didn't you kick my butt back in the tournament too? XD

But yeah, I don't watch replays to learn builds, I've got mine which I kinda make up on the fly. Gateway usually goes down at the same time, same with the cybernetics, and second gateway to block the ramp if needed. I'm slowly learning about other players builds, that's one of my big stopping blocks I think, which is why I rush to a robo, so I can get observers over their base and see what's actually happening.
 
Fair play ahd the worst day ever. Lost every single game and dropped form no 1 silver to 4. Sigh, really feel like pulling my hair out. I love 4v4 but playing random sucks.
 
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