Official: 28nm graphics dubbed Radeon HD 7000

[PakJai]

Yeah lol

If 7990 does turn out to be a monster, it would be very interesting to see what kind of cpus and their speeds needed to ensure no bottlenecking of such gfx card.

I have [email protected] and would like to see how it works with 7990!!

It will get to the point where games developers will have to do more to make full use of the cards capabilities. We already have multiple core cpu's chips clocking above 5Ghz etc and we are still not seeing things being pushed to the max. It will eventually become too silly with all the high end stuff but little gaming titles to match the hardwares.

Heck, even my crossfire 5850's have no trouble on max settings with my cpu running at 4Ghz. With the pace new cpu's are being introduced, I am sure bottlenecking of the gpu should be the least of your concern, besides, anything over 60fps on highest possible settings are totally playable

 

[Stonedofmoo]

Well. I'm glad that's settled. I was plagued by doubts over what AMD would call their next generation graphics.

LOL, that's exactly what I was thinking

 

[Rofflay]

AMD simply didn’t have money or the practical need to support two different 28nm chip designs, one for TSMC and one for Globalfoundries.

Says it all really....AMD need another 9800 pro and soon.

 

[psychas]

wasnt 6970 released December 15th as i got it on first day it was released. of course if amd release september im sure it is going to be low end first as they usually do same as with 6870

 

[drunkenmaster]

On paper, possibly (which is all Nvidia's going to manage too). Doubt we'll see anything on the shelves this side of Christmas.

This isn't correct, Nvidia will have 28nm stuff out before xmas but it WON'T be the new generation, just die shrunk low end last gen stuff.

AMD WILL have HD7000 series cards out before xmas, likely at the very least the almost high end cards, if not the high end. IE if they can't release the 7970 on the lower process, the 7870 might be what we see, it will probably be both though.

Says it all really....AMD need another 9800 pro and soon.

I have no idea what this means, or how it relates to what you quoted? You realise it costs millions to tape out a new design and producing an identical chip at two different fabs increases costs dramatically, the lay out of every single last one of likely closing in on 4-5billion transistors, needs changing for different processes at different types of process anyway, and TSMC/Glofo are going gate last/gate first respectively so the difference between the designs would be even greater than normal.

GloFo also won't have any significant 28nm capacity until probably mid to late 2012.

This is assuming you think AMD simply don't have enough money and need another winning card which is all I can infer from your post. This is of course ignoring that the 9700 pro is what took ATi back into the gaming market against Nvidia by blowing away the gf3/gf4ti cards, the 9800pro was just a slightly overclocked version of the 9700 pro. Apple, samsung, Intel, Nvidia wouldn't just throw millions of dollars and THOUSANDS of engineering hours of work down the drain to make an identical chip in a different fab, its simply stupid. Its not that they can't afford it, theres just no need to throw money down the drain.

We will almost certainly get some cross fab production for the next gen(as GloFo's real capacity at 28nm is coming online really mid to late 2012 at their new plant), but we'll likely see a split of parts and almost certainly not the same parts. IE 7970/50/30, 7870/50/30 , from Glofo and the 7770/7750 7570/7550 type parts from TSMC. These all need to be taped out separately anyway so won't make a whole lot of difference.

 

[drunkenmaster]

wasnt 6970 released December 15th as i got it on first day it was released. of course if amd release september im sure it is going to be low end first as they usually do same as with 6870

Thats the first time AMD or Nvidia have ever done so, and its purely the lack of 32nm which both companies meant to be on.

THe 6870 was craploads less work than the 6970, the 6870 is a tweaked 5870(though very nicely tweaked), the 6970 they ripped from a 32nm design, backported to 40nm, cut down and had to lose various parts of due to lack of space.

Its possible the not so high end will come out first, but the 6870 most certainly wasn't "low end" in any way shape or form, we'll have to see though.

The 6970/6870 weren't planned years in advance as normal so very hard to say what AMD will do next time, they were also vastly different to every previous gen in performance.

Every previous gen you have a 9700 pro, 9500 pro thats half the speed, and a 9300 pro thats half the speed again. there 8 pipelines, 4, and 2. Later on its 800 shader 4870, 400 shader, 4670, 1600 shader 5870, 800 shader 5770.

With the 6970/6870, what you got was a high end card with all the compute stuff included with a 380mm2 die size, but dramatically lower gaming performance per mm2. Still faster and not much more expensive, but essentially you have the ultimate gaming oriented architecture in the 6870, and the 6970 which isn't close to twice as fast as every previous generations split.

So this gen, will we get a 7970 with X shaders, and a 7870 with x/2 shaders? or will we get a 7970 with all the compute stuff on die, fast but fairly big, and a 7870 thats vastly smaller, lots of compute and other stuff removed, but way more than half the speed of a 7970........... AMD knows, no one else does.

 

[MeMeMeMe]

Well. I'm glad that's settled. I was plagued by doubts over what AMD would call their next generation graphics.

lol, yes it was such a mystery.

 

[GAC]

http://bbs.expreview.com/thread-46257-1-1.html

found this thismorning, if the numbers are correct the 7870 will be a little faster than a 6970, so looks more like a tweak rather than a whole new chipset.

should still drop the power requiermnets and heat output, as well as prices on the 6000's

 

[Sweey]

http://bbs.expreview.com/thread-46257-1-1.html

found this thismorning, if the numbers are correct the 7870 will be a little faster than a 6970, so looks more like a tweak rather than a whole new chipset.

should still drop the power requiermnets and heat output, as well as prices on the 6000's

Fits in with what I read over the weekend - basically that the HD 7000 series (or those released in the next 6-9 months) won't be more than a tweak. The same article claimed that the nVidiia cards due Q2 next year will bring an actual performance increase and that AMD will follow suit around this time next year.

I will do my best to find the link later today unless someone else finds it before then.

I was waitnig on one of the 7000 cards expecting a good performance increase but am now likely to just buy a 6970 and wait until 2013 - nVidia isn't a great route for me if I want to use 3D on my Samsung.

 

[drunkenmaster]

So the new not high end card will be faster than the old high end card, sorry how does that indicate its only a tweak and that the new gen won't be a big upgrade?

7970 significantly faster than the 6970, and a 7870 significantly faster than a 6870, but only a tiny bit faster than the 6970.

This is normal, IE 4870, 5870 is almost twice the speed, a 5770 is almost bang on 4870 performance.

Essentially the 6870/7870 are midrange now, and the 6970/7970 are the high end.

Performance is going to be hard to judge now, assuming those specs were true, we really don't know how GNC will perform per shader vs VLIW 4. Also you don't know how VLIW 4 will work vs last gen.

remember the 5870 vs 6870, a LOT less shaders, very close on performance, a huge amount of improvement, just because the 7870 is VLIW 4 doesn't mean it couldn't be a lot more efficient, also being a "midrange" card rather than high end.

It should basically move 6970 performance from £270, to £150.

 

[Freddie1980]

If the above source is correct those are some pretty good TDP numbers which should mean any potential 7970 will run pretty cool and quiet. However I do wonder what performance gains will be achievable with those power specs.

 

[555BUK]

Don't get too excited, it's mostly just a die-shrink. AMD will use the reduced production costs to increase margins, whilst keeping the retail price as high as possible. I doubt there will be any real incentive to upgrade from 5000/6000 parts until the 8 series arrives.

On the plus side, 28nm parts are likely to clock slightly higher and require slightly less power.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Don't get too excited, it's mostly just a die-shrink. AMD will use the reduced production costs to increase margins, whilst keeping the retail price as high as possible. I doubt there will be any real incentive to upgrade from 5000/6000 parts until the 8 series arrives.

On the plus side, 28nm parts are likely to clock slightly higher and require slightly less power.

Your source for this is? Nothing, so well done.

The 5770 only had 800 shaders, which obviously indicated that the 5870 wasn't a decent upgrade to the 4870, because that also had the same number of shaders.

New midrange = old high end.... fail to see the issue. We also have no idea if it has had significant tweaks, as I said before, look at 5870 to 6870, 40% less shaders, what, 10% less performance, what happens to the 7870 if the same thing happens with the same number of shaders.

GNC, its supposed to be improved efficiency per shader + more shaders, more bandwidth. The "other" leak has the 7870/50 also as GNC rather than VLIW 4, so who knows which is true.

calling GNC "mostly a die shrink" is inherantly wrong though, also little birdies who tend to get AMD card info spot on, suggests a 7970 will be just shy of matching a 6990....... hardly an insignificant bump in performance.

 

[Nymins]

Your source for this is? Nothing, so well done.

The 5770 only had 800 shaders, which obviously indicated that the 5870 wasn't a decent upgrade to the 4870, because that also had the same number of shaders.

New midrange = old high end.... fail to see the issue. We also have no idea if it has had significant tweaks, as I said before, look at 5870 to 6870, 40% less shaders, what, 10% less performance, what happens to the 7870 if the same thing happens with the same number of shaders.

GNC, its supposed to be improved efficiency per shader + more shaders, more bandwidth.

To be fair to the guy, you are pretty much doing the same thing, its all speculation.

No-one will know until AMD confirms the specs. There may be a die shrink with minor performance increase, or there could be significant improvements.

The situation is, no-one knows.

 

[Rroff]

calling GNC "mostly a die shrink" is inherantly wrong though, also little birdies who tend to get AMD card info spot on, suggests a 7970 will be just shy of matching a 6990....... hardly an insignificant bump in performance.

Sounds feasible 6970->"7970" is looking like a ~25-30% bump in shaders plus ~25-30% increase from combination of efficency/clock speed - which would put it just behind average crossfire scaling for the 6990.

 

[drunkenmaster]

To be fair to the guy, you are pretty much doing the same thing, its all speculation.

No-one will know until AMD confirms the specs. There may be a die shrink with minor performance increase, or there could be significant improvements.

The situation is, no-one knows.

Actually, I've put no numbers anywhere, and haven't claimed anything, I've just pointed out the logic being used to suggest the performance increase won't be anything, and thats its just a dieshrink, is a joke.

Nothing I've said is speculation, GNC is catagorically not a die shrink, its a dramatic shift in architecture, AMD have already talked and given out official info on it.

Sounds feasible 6970->"7970" is looking like a ~25-30% bump in shaders plus ~25-30% increase from combination of efficency/clock speed - which would put it just behind average crossfire scaling for the 6990.

Sorry but, where are you getting those numbers, average xfire scaling on a 6990 is 60%?

60% would only be if you include a bunch of cpu limited benchmarks or games where xfire doesn't work, when it works and you're not cpu limited your talking about 80-90% scaling in most situations. A single gpu will already negate all non xfire working situations so adding those into 6990 numbers would be silly.

Its looking like 33% shaders, and a largely improved efficiency per shader, though per mm2 might be reduced, we'll have to see.

 

[Rroff]

Wasn't saying average crossfire scaling is 60%, tho over a good range of titles its much closer to that than 90%. With the 7970 looking about ~60 - possibly 70% faster than the 6970 it puts it just behind average scaling for the 6990 (baring in mind the 6990 isn't exactly the same as 2x 6970 - slightly slower clocks, etc.).

(If you move away from the mainstream benchmarked titles theres an awful lot of games where both SLI and CF scaling is in the region of 40-70% and a lot less where its 80-90%)

 

[Nymins]

Actually, I've put no numbers anywhere, and haven't claimed anything, I've just pointed out the logic being used to suggest the performance increase won't be anything, and thats its just a dieshrink, is a joke.

Nothing I've said is speculation, GNC is catagorically not a die shrink, its a dramatic shift in architecture, AMD have already talked and given out official info on it..

Yes but no-one can possibly know the true speeds or performance of the cards yet. They may have more shaders, high clocks, new architecture or whatever, but no-one can say if they will be much faster. They probably (read should) be faster, but again its impossible to say.

People saying its not a die-shrink are just as right/wrong as those who are saying it is and vice versa.

 

[LeJosh]

45nm to 32nm is quite a large step in lithography terms.

I wonder how much they'll fit in.

 

[555BUK]

I guess we will only know for certain when release day arrives, but most "leaks" only appear to confirm a die shrink with minor tweaks.

I remember waiting expectantly for the 6970 release and being let down massively. Hopefully AMD will throw in a few additional bells and whistles this time around, but I am not holding my breath.