Google excludes churches from its non-for-profits discounts

[matt0r]

stuff

It is important to remember that evolution doesn't even come close to disproving a deity or creator. In fact what Acidhell said is true that a lot of biologists do believe or would like the idea of a god. In fact many pope's and religions do not say that evolution is false or against god, it is when you apply a completely literal reading of the bible that it gets problematic.

Anyway this is ridiculously off-topic now.

 

[arknor]

the church arent non profit anyway....

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Which proves my point. If those 'good' things would have happened without religion, then conversely the 'bad' you attribute to it would have also.

Fallacious argument. What prerogative would there be for anyone to encourage people into buildings to sit around, being unproductive, else fear eternal damnation?

What prerogative would there be for a group of influential and rich people to to encourage people in Africa not to use condoms?

What prerogative would there be for, in a progressed society, to stone women to for adultery (of if we go old school bible, to execute a bridge who isn't a virgin but marries anyway)?

Why would a reasonably powerful and effective lobby group lobby for fairytales to be taught to children almost on a truth par with historical record and fact?

Why would a bunch of educated people hijack planes and fly them into buildings to precipitate a war?

Why has there been such a bloody and ongoing conflict in Ireland?

Why would a mother be emotionally tortured because her church and priest insists that her miscarried child is burning in hell for original sin (oh wait, they changed their mind recently didn't they)?

BS that any of this (and much more) would happen without religion.

 

[Castiel]

It doesn't just have to be world-wide destruction. Buddhism has a big problem with the cultural oppression of women. Same with Hindus, the Caste system and again the status of women.

So does the largely Secular Western World. Discrimination of groups based on gender, race, birth, nation, ad nauseam....isn't limited to religions. It is a trait common to all societies, including our own.

 

[Glaucus]

What prerogative would there be for a group of influential and rich people to to encourage people in Africa not to use condoms?

.

still pending this same BS.
Nestle, baby milk powder, Africa

How about Russia, camps, millions dead.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

So does the largely Secular Western World. Discrimination of groups based on gender, race, birth, nation, ad nauseam....isn't limited to religions. It is a trait common to all societies, including our own.

Sure it is, but it is one more thing. And I've already said to someone else in this thread; just because X is happening doesn't mean you should not or cannot work to solve Y.

 

[Glaucus]

Up you haven't said how you are going to solve y, or even admitted what the underlying cause of the problem is. Until you acknowledge the underlying problem. How can you even start to mend ways.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

still pending this same BS.
Nestle, baby milk powder, Africa

What about it? It happened, and would have done with or without. None of it excuses the extra bad that happens because of religion.

 

[Glaucus]

What about it? It happened, and would have done with or without. None of it excuses the extra bad that happens because of religion.

The extra bad, what is that extra bad, please tell. Anything that has happened in name of religion has also happened with out religion.

 

[aaron]

Yes I read all of it actually, however i just interpreted the fact that it is more down to enviromental factors such as poachers for instance rather than a guiding hand as such so no i dont beleive it is the same as (Im sorry to keep referring to this) with the elephants, they are without a doubt changing due to an enviromental issue. so yes you could say it was the guiding hand of a higher power except the enviromental factor in this case was mankind who supposedly have free will, therefore in this situation evolution is occuring naturally without the guiding hand of god as this higher power could not have intervened if christianitys teachings are to be beleived.

You do have a point i guess in terms of science ignoring intelligent design as most people, myself included i guess (although i try to stay neutral...well relatively) follow science to closely. However i suppose thats because retrospectively sciences nature is to look at evidence and improve upon theorys whereas religion tends to deny any change to there dogma even if there is evidence to contradict it.

As I said though I have no problem whatsever with belief in a higher power, It's just religion itself that annoys me. Seriously dont get why just cant beleive in something higher without comitting themselves to a particular religion. Most religions are the same anyway (bound to be i guess with the majority be abrahamic) so surely they should find common ground and join together to become one, however they dont so that the people at the top stay at the top. Just wrong in my opionion, lead a humble life they say with the pope sitting on his throne in undoubtly the most impressive palace this world had ever seen. Pyramid scheme!

 

[Hatter The Mad]

How about Russia, camps, millions dead.

Yeah how about that;

 

[Hatter The Mad]

The extra bad, what is that extra bad, please tell. Anything that has happened in name of religion has also happened with out religion.

I didn't mean 'extra bad', I meant the 'extra/other/additional bad things'. Just because you have 9 bad things happening which don't appear to be related religion does not excuse an additional bad thing happening whatsoever.

 

[Glaucus]

Yes I read all of it actually, however i just interpreted the fact that it is more down to enviromental factors such as poachers for instance rather than a guiding hand as such so no i dont beleive it is the same as (Im sorry to keep referring to this) with the elephants, they are without a doubt changing due to an enviromental issue. so yes you could say it was the guiding hand of a higher power except the enviromental factor in this case was mankind who supposedly have free will, therefore in this situation evolution is occuring naturally without the guiding hand of god as this higher power could not have intervened if christianitys teachings are to be beleived.

LoL did you rely just say because man has free will evolution can't be from a higher hand, you haven't understood what I have said at all. How has free will and change in elephant have any bearing. Intelligent design of an elephant does not remove free will of humans.

Elephants changing does not disprove intelligent design by any stretch of the imagination.

You clearly haven't understood anything I have said and are clutching at straws as you are unwilling to admit that evidence for ID and Evolution are the same, always have been the same.
That is what is wrong with some many people, on booths sides. They hold positions that don't make sense.

Why is it so hard for you to just admit the evidence is identical but ID just doesn't fall within the scientific method and that is what you hold more weight in.

 

[Glaucus]

I didn't mean 'extra bad', I meant the 'extra/other/additional bad things'. Just because you have 9 bad things happening which don't appear to be related religion does not excuse an additional bad thing happening whatsoever.

What additional bad things?

What has religion done that isn't done with out religion. Your still not making sense.

 

[Destination]

It doesn't just have to be world-wide destruction. Buddhism has a big problem with the cultural oppression of women. Same with Hindus, the Caste system and again the status of women.

So what is your solution then?
How do you control the masses at a non-governmental level then?

 

[Hatter The Mad]

What additional bad things?

I listed a bunch of them above.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

So what is your solution then?
How do you control the masses at a non-governmental level then?

You don't have to.

 

[Glaucus]

I listed a bunch of them above.

Where? All you listed so far, has happened in society with out religion.
How do you plan to rid people's ideas and thoughts. You going to control their minds?
What do you think would happen with banning it, your views. And wants would cause just as much trouble as religious fundamentalists if they got their way.

You can not wipe ideas of the face of the earth, you can't not get rid of ideas or force people not to believe them.
All you can do is be tolerant and educate and use sensible laws to help insure bad things don't happen, from any walk of life.

 

[matt0r]

Why is it so hard for you to just admit the evidence is identical but ID just doesn't fall within the scientific method and that is what you hold more weight in.

That said most of the creationist claims have been actively disproved by the scientific method.

 

[Castiel]

Fallacious argument. What prerogative would there be for anyone to encourage people into buildings to sit around, being unproductive, else fear eternal damnation?

Ever actually been to a church, if you think they are simply peddling fear of damnation then you are (obvious by your contribution so far anyway) poorly informed about Christianity.

What prerogative would there be for a group of influential and rich people to to encourage people in Africa not to use condoms?

Interestingly the Catholic Church preaches abstention, which would actually work better than condoms and also go some way toward tackling the issues of rape and brutality toward women. Having said that, many Catholic Missionaries do actually preach safe sex with condoms as well as actively petition the Holy See to change it's official objections to them.

What prerogative would there be for, in a progressed society, to stone women to for adultery (of if we go old school bible, to execute a bridge who isn't a virgin but marries anyway)?

Is there a progressive society that actually stones or even punishes a woman (or man) for adultery? The regions that do still advocate those kinds of acts are hardly progressive, and the practices pre-date the religions of those regions anyway and are largely a product of tribal cultural influences rather than religious ones.

Why would a reasonably powerful and effective lobby group lobby for fairytales to be taught to children almost on a truth par with historical record and fact?

You will have to be more specific, as far as I am aware neither the oral or written tradition of folklore is taught as being factual outside of the actual historicity of the practice itself.

Why would a bunch of educated people hijack planes and fly them into buildings to precipitate a war?

Geo-Political reasons based on the foreign economic and political policies of that country and it's allies.

Why has there been such a bloody and ongoing conflict in Ireland?

Again, politics.

Why would a mother be emotionally tortured because her church and priest insists that her miscarried child is burning in hell for original sin (oh wait, they changed their mind recently didn't they)?

Lol. There is nothing in catholic doctrine that suggests a child and especially a miscarriage is burning in hell for original sin. Again I point you to the need for you to actually research the religion you are criticising before making judgements.

BS that any of this (and much more) would happen without religion.