Dale Farm Cleared Tomorrow?

PermaBanned said:
Prove it.
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It is legally designated Green Belt. However, even if it wasn't, the site doesn't have residential planning permission beyond the 40 or so pitches already given permission for.

Repeated attempts to gain residential planning permission retrospectively have been turned down by the council and the full gamut of the appeals process.

If they continue to reside in the site they are breaking the law and the council have the right to remove them.
 
PermaBanned said:
That doesn't make it the right thing to do.
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Legally it does, morally it is up for debate.

Given that the travellers have been given ample time and opportunity, with offers of help and alternative sites the moral argument is pretty weak at best.

I agree that each of us should be free to live where and how we chose, however civil society demands that other considerations are taken into account, including the impact we have on others freedoms, the environment and the sustainability of society be it local or otherwise.

This is why we have such restrictions placed upon us, we are obliged to conform to those conditions, not only for our own benefit, but the benefit of everyone else as well as the environment we all share. This includes the Travellers, they may not want to abide, but they are obliged to nonetheless.

Like any of us, they have the right to challenge any action taken against them legally, they have done so. They have been unsuccessful, they need to move on and if they wish continue to they can campaign for the changes they wish to see, however to do this they must also engage and participate in the society they wish to change for their benefit which is something many of them do not wish to do for reasons only they understand.
 
PermaBanned said:
That doesn't make it the right thing to do.
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It what way is it not the right thing to do. The council has to strike a balance when making planning decisions and it's decided that 40 pitches is enough. IMO 40 is more than generous considering it's green belt land.
 
Castiel said:
For a decade options and alternatives have been offered, including other sites and unused pitches in the legal site at dale farm. All have been rebuffed or ignored. It is not as if this is something that has just happened or a decision that was taken arbitrarily.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14905523

Read between the lines and what it basically comes down to is this

"We can move a few of you next door to the legal site, we can move a few of you to sites around essex, a few more to the next county, and a few more into the county after that and so and so forth"

They were not presented with a solution that kept the community together. Because they didn't want the community together, they wanted it split and moved on elsewhere to be somebody elses problem.

The whole greenbelt thing is BS too. Look at the moves by the new coalition government to scrap the whole greenbelt restrictions to encourage self builders and the like to build more houses as we currently have a massive housing shortage in this country. There is massive overhaul in the planning regulations coming.

Probably one of the reasons they want to evict them now before the camp can be made legal.

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/development/cameron-steps-into-planning-reform-row/6517781.article

Personally i hope cameron has the guts to follow the plans through, and stick two fingers up firmly to the nimby brigade that have hindered development for so long.
 
MrLOL said:
"We can move a few of you next door to the legal site, we can move a few of you to sites around essex, a few more to the next county, and a few more into the county after that and so and so forth"

They were not presented with a solution that kept the community together. Because they didn't want the community together, they wanted it split and moved on elsewhere to be somebody elses problem.
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But this community should never have developed in the first place, how is bending to their wants any way of enforcing the law?
 
Less than an hour to go! A friend of mine is a policeman and the eviction will take 4-6 weeks of police time. It will cost millions and millions of council taxes that I have contributed to in order to remove these people.

To the people harping on about alternatives, they have houses back "home" which they occupy for 4-6 weeks per year due to weddings and christmas.

Have a read of this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lti-million-pound-housing-estate-Ireland.html

There are options, they choose to live illegally and break the law. I take it the people defending them haven't had to live with them in the community? People are petrified of them, even the cemetery is closing it's gates in case they decide to move on there!
 
MrLOL said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14905523

Read between the lines and what it basically comes down to is this

"We can move a few of you next door to the legal site, we can move a few of you to sites around essex, a few more to the next county, and a few more into the county after that and so and so forth"

They were not presented with a solution that kept the community together. Because they didn't want the community together, they wanted it split and moved on elsewhere to be somebody elses problem.

The whole greenbelt thing is BS too. Look at the moves by the new coalition government to scrap the whole greenbelt restrictions to encourage self builders and the like to build more houses as we currently have a massive housing shortage in this country. There is massive overhaul in the planning regulations coming.

Probably one of the reasons they want to evict them now before the camp can be made legal.

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/development/cameron-steps-into-planning-reform-row/6517781.article

Personally i hope cameron has the guts to follow the plans through, and stick two fingers up firmly to the nimby brigade that have hindered development for so long.
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It was and is an artificial community to begin with. They should not be there, it is as simple as that. They have no right to be there, they are breaking the law being there and why should we bend the rules to accommodate them.

They made a conscious and intentional attempt to circumvent the planning laws, regardless of the land designation, there is no residential planning permission on the site outside of the 40 or so already given and they failed in their legal attempt to get that planning permission.

Also the planning overhaul doesn't scrap greenbelt designation, or allow development wherever and whenever people want. In fact they would still require planning permission and would have to abide to the law and restrictions therein, something they do not wish to do.

This isn't about the NIMBY's, (who have every right to protect the environment in which they live btw) it is about a group of people who wilfully and knowingly broke the law.

Allowing larger and larger Traveller sites or creating townships/ghettos doesn't help with housing shortages as these communities live outside and apart from society anyway. They have no intention of engaging with or being part of society as a whole, they do not contribute in any meaningful or productive way and until they do they should not be given rights that the rest of society does not have.

They should be moved.
 
Castiel said:
They should be moved.
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Agree completely.

They fail to obey our laws and consider themselves able to do what they want when they want and that if they want to take someone elses property thats fine. Then as soon as they are told they have to comply with the law they run screaming to the courts... double standards what?

IMO they want massive camps fine, I am sure most of those living in the country would chip in to buy them 20 or 30 square miles of land in Afganistan.
 
Telegraph said:
“We have supporters coming from all over – from Ireland, Scotland, Wales and even Germany. We have a few surprises up our sleeves. Cars to set on fire, gas cylinders to explode that kind of thing.”
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Lovely.
 
Should have gone in a 6am with massive numbers, police, bailiffs, usual council busybodies, the works.

OR pull the usual council trick and show up at 3pm.
 
There is no exemption from planning laws for anyone, so this is fine with me. They have been given ample opportunity to resolve the issue themselves, and they own houses elsewhere.

If they start with violence, arrest every single one of them for violent disorder.
 
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