Huge accident on M5

[TW]Fox;20524658 said:
I don't really have a mate who is an accident investigator. I was doing a sort of parody thing for comical effect.
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NO WAY.

The thing is you normally know everything about everything about everything so I was surprised you actually knew somebody (or you are really good at Googling) where I don't know anything about anything (except domestic appliances circa 1980 to 2007) but I do know a hell of a lot of people since I've worked with 1000s & 1000s and also gigged to 1000s & 1000s.
You need to get out more and find some friends.
 
Dimple said:
NO WAY.

The thing is you normally know everything about everything about everything so I was surprised you actually knew somebody (or you are really good at Googling) where I don't know anything about anything (except domestic appliances circa 1980 to 2007) but I do know a hell of a lot of people since I've worked with 1000s & 1000s and also gigged to 1000s & 1000s.
You need to get out more and find some friends.
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Que?
 
Bunka said:
Que?
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You have to read from where Fox was trying to take the pee out of me.

Because he doesn't know anybody he has a problem with me knowing 1000s & 1000s of people but I do get out a lot and have worked at multi thousand worker factories.
If you have ever followed Fox he knows everything about everything where I don't know anything except about domestic appliances before 2007 but I know loads of people who know stuff (and some are on here).
It's quite sad really that he has to try and have a go at my lack of intelligence.
 
Further to this incident, I have been conducting a little experiment this week, with last weekends tragic events in mind.

I have been taking note of how cars react when I indicate to pull from the nearside lane into the middle lane.

Given the size of my HGV and the height of the trailer (14'6" and 15'3" this week) its fairly obvious that whoever is behind me, or coming up on my off side from the rear can't have much idea as to what I am indicating to get past / avoid.

Today for example, I travelled from Trafford Park to Livingston, M60, M61, M6, M74 & M8.

Every time I indicated, I watched to see what the car (or van) would do, do they sit back & let me out? or do they change lane into the 3rd lane? (which HGV's are banned from)

With the notable exception of a Subaru driver, not one car did either.

Every one thought the best course of action was to remain in lane 2 & accelerate past me.

Now, given on Friday night in Taunton almost certainly - from the crash pictures - the trucks involved were trying to change lane, I have a sad feeling as to how many of the car drivers probably reacted when they initially saw HGV's infront of them braking & indicating to pull out.

With the tragic concequences we have all witnessed.

Perhaps because i drive them, I would never try to pass an indicating HGV, my little experiment this week has saddened me considerably, I can almost picture what was most likely to have happened.....

I was kind of hoping this week to see just a tad more caution around HGV's demonstrated by car drivers given 99% must have seen the news coverage of the incident.

I should have known better.

Cars in gear, brains in neutral. :(
 
As well as that I've been counting how much gap people leave and the vast majority is around the 0.8 second mark.
Which is probably one of the major factors of why so many where involved.
 
R420LA6X2/4MNA said:
Every one thought the best course of action was to remain in lane 2 & accelerate past me.
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I cant speak for the drivers but an explanation to this may be that there is a increasing amount of people using there indicators while already in the process of changing lanes. So they probably expected you to do the same causing them to panic, its easier to simple accelerate out of the way where they can already see a clear path rather than cause an accident with a last minute lane change.
 
R420LA6X2/4MNA said:
Given the size of my HGV and the height of the trailer (14'6" and 15'3" this week) its fairly obvious that whoever is behind me, or coming up on my off side from the rear can't have much idea as to what I am indicating to get past / avoid.

Today for example, I travelled from Trafford Park to Livingston, M60, M61, M6, M74 & M8.

Every time I indicated, I watched to see what the car (or van) would do, do they sit back & let me out? or do they change lane into the 3rd lane? (which HGV's are banned from)

With the notable exception of a Subaru driver, not one car did either.

Every one thought the best course of action was to remain in lane 2 & accelerate past me.

Now, given on Friday night in Taunton almost certainly - from the crash pictures - the trucks involved were trying to change lane, I have a sad feeling as to how many of the car drivers probably reacted when they initially saw HGV's infront of them braking & indicating to pull out.

With the tragic concequences we have all witnessed.

Perhaps because i drive them, I would never try to pass an indicating HGV, my little experiment this week has saddened me considerably, I can almost picture what was most likely to have happened.....

I was kind of hoping this week to see just a tad more caution around HGV's demonstrated by car drivers given 99% must have seen the news coverage of the incident.

I should have known better.

Cars in gear, brains in neutral. :(
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why on earth wouldn't any one pass an indicating HGV, well the only reason would be in case it's left hand drive or the driver is trying to pick up his yorky.

the change of direction and/or speed causes the problem
 
Glaucus said:
As well as that I've been counting how much gap people leave and the vast majority is around the 0.8 second mark.
Which is probably one of the major factors of why so many where involved.
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I thought you claimed that better training would do nothing?
 
sigma said:
I thought you claimed that better training would do nothing?
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It wouldn't. Distances are trained already it's a big part of theory and practicale. So why would extra training of information drivers already know, make any difference what so ever?
We need enforcement.
 
Slam62 said:
why on earth wouldn't any one pass an indicating HGV, well the only reason would be in case it's left hand drive or the driver is trying to pick up his yorky.

the change of direction and/or speed causes the problem
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in my experience the HGV's indicate at the last minute and move before they see me, normally when I'm half way up their trailer and no where to go in the 3rd lane resulting in me having to brake and drop back or get squashed. It happens frequently they must be like oh I'm massive people can get out of my way!
 
R420LA6X2/4MNA said:
Further to this incident, I have been conducting a little experiment this week, with last weekends tragic events in mind.

I have been taking note of how cars react when I indicate to pull from the nearside lane into the middle lane.

Given the size of my HGV and the height of the trailer (14'6" and 15'3" this week) its fairly obvious that whoever is behind me, or coming up on my off side from the rear can't have much idea as to what I am indicating to get past / avoid.

Today for example, I travelled from Trafford Park to Livingston, M60, M61, M6, M74 & M8.

Every time I indicated, I watched to see what the car (or van) would do, do they sit back & let me out? or do they change lane into the 3rd lane? (which HGV's are banned from)

With the notable exception of a Subaru driver, not one car did either.

Every one thought the best course of action was to remain in lane 2 & accelerate past me.

Now, given on Friday night in Taunton almost certainly - from the crash pictures - the trucks involved were trying to change lane, I have a sad feeling as to how many of the car drivers probably reacted when they initially saw HGV's infront of them braking & indicating to pull out.

With the tragic concequences we have all witnessed.

Perhaps because i drive them, I would never try to pass an indicating HGV, my little experiment this week has saddened me considerably, I can almost picture what was most likely to have happened.....

I was kind of hoping this week to see just a tad more caution around HGV's demonstrated by car drivers given 99% must have seen the news coverage of the incident.

I should have known better.

Cars in gear, brains in neutral. :(
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If I am halfway alongside you, you shouldn't be indicating. If you start indicating and I am alongside you I either have to weigh up braking without collecting someone behind me, change lane into a gap that might or might not be there depending on traffic, or use all of my 4.3L of V8 power to get past you. The number of times I have been alongside a truck that has started indicating and moving across at the same time without giving me a chance to change lane means I now take the absolute fastest route out of dodge, which in maybe 75% of cases involves dropping 2 cogs and hitting the limiter.
 
R420LA6X2/4MNA said:
Every time I indicated, I watched to see what the car (or van) would do, do they sit back & let me out? or do they change lane into the 3rd lane? (which HGV's are banned from)

With the notable exception of a Subaru driver, not one car did either.
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Interesting that it was a performance orientated car/driver that did the correct thing, not little Miss Daisy in her Kia Picanto...


Even today on the M4 I was in middle lane and an HGV was in inside lane. He indicated... so I flashed him out and moved myself over to the 3rd lane. :)
 
Glaucus said:
It wouldn't. Distances are trained already it's a big part of theory and practicale. So why would extra training of information drivers already know, make any difference what so ever?
We need enforcement.
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Continuous training, more emphasis on real world experience rather than just reading it in a book and clicking a mouse. We need enforcement too, but we definitely need a re-think about training.

I guarantee you most drivers don't have the first clue about motorway driving or driving in general.
 
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DRZ said:
If I am halfway alongside you, you shouldn't be indicating. If you start indicating and I am alongside you I either have to weigh up braking without collecting someone behind me, change lane into a gap that might or might not be there depending on traffic, or use all of my 4.3L of V8 power to get past you. The number of times I have been alongside a truck that has started indicating and moving across at the same time without giving me a chance to change lane means I now take the absolute fastest route out of dodge, which in maybe 75% of cases involves dropping 2 cogs and hitting the limiter.
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Had a horrible situation like that once, we were alongside a lorry in the middle lane when he started indicating out and a moment later when we didn't pull into the 3rd lane started gesturing at us crossly to pull out and started coming out anyway a moment later (he was doing a good speed (over 60)), what he couldn't see was the motorbike coming up behind us in the 3rd lane (we were in a sizeable MPV), very tense situation.
 
Rroff said:
Had a horrible situation like that once, we were alongside a lorry in the middle lane when he started indicating out and a moment later when we didn't pull into the 3rd lane started gesturing at us crossly to pull out and started coming out anyway a moment later (he was doing a good speed (over 60)),
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He was doing over 60 in a vehicle limited to 56mph?
 
sigma said:
Continuous training, more emphasis on real world experience rather than just reading it in a book and clicking a mouse. We need enforcement too, but we definitely need a re-think about training.

I guarantee you most drivers don't have the first clue about motorway driving or driving in general.
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It's not just a wheel click, it's part of the practicale. I see no reason why extra training would have any benefit of following distances. People know it or used to, but have forgotten as police do not pull people over.
 
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