30/11 Strikes.

[[TW]Fox]

I thought it was generally accepted that most public sector jobs were not paid as well as private sector equivalents?

But Dolph says they have it easy and are excessively renumerated for what they do?

Are we now saying they dont get paid as much as private sector equivilents but get a better pension? So effectively you reward them for long service to encourage them to stay rather than the private sector method of higher wages?

 

[Adsta]

Dolph says its because you get much more money than the private sector. Isn't this right?

yea right I really wish I got paid more. When I joined I was told flat out that while I will not have a larger salary than the private sector the perks make up for it. When I first joined that was true to its word. Now they have stripped back every single perk.

So now not only am I earning less than a private sector work (of the same skillset as me) I am also on a pay freeze have no perks to this job and now they want to **** over my pension.

I have been working in the public sector for 7 years now. I have been offered jobs with rival contracters which are private companys but working for the government. With an offer of about double my salary I am earning now. Reason I havn't taken them jobs is two reasons. A) I don't really want to move from where I live now. B) I used to like the work I was doing and knowing that I was helping Britain.

As for my work being easy yea you know what I love having to travel the world (for work) in economy. Then as soon as I land get straight into work. No time for rest or anything becasue we have to "save" money. I love having to travel constantly overseas and absolutly cripple my social life and time spent with family and friends because I have to work. I love having to go overseas and getting put into a crap hotel because we need to "save" money. I love having to spend my own money overseas just so I can live fairly comfortably while I work 12+hours a day. So many people say to me you have a great job get to see the world for free.... er no I get to travel to a country spend most of my time at work then go back to my crappy hotel because I am nackered and not get to spend hardly any time with my friends or family.... I get to see no pay rise for the next few years and now I get to see what was a great pension go down the drain where I will have to pay more into it and work longer. Yea great job.

 

[RDM]

I thought it was generally accepted that most public sector jobs were not paid as well as private sector equivalents?

It might be generally accepted but it isn't necessarily true. It can also be distorted quite considerably by the near monopoly status of some public sector professions (i.e. teaching and nursing).

Some professions are better off pay wise in the private sector, some better off pay wise in the public sector.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

[...claims he could be better paid and have an easier life if he takes up a better offer he has received in the private sector...]

Reason I havn't taken them jobs is two reasons. A) I don't really want to move from where I live now. B) I used to like the work I was doing and knowing that I was helping Britain.

[...rants about how difficult his work is and how it is damaging his life...]

Adsta
Location: In my own world

 

[RDM]

As for my work being easy yea you know what I love having to travel the world (for work) in economy. Then as soon as I land get straight into work. No time for rest or anything becasue we have to "save" money. I love having to travel constantly overseas and absolutly cripple my social life and time spent with family and friends because I have to work. I love having to go overseas and getting put into a crap hotel because we need to "save" money. I love having to spend my own money overseas just so I can live fairly comfortably while I work 12+hours a day. So many people say to me you have a great job get to see the world for free.... er no I get to travel to a country spend most of my time at work then go back to my crappy hotel because I am nackered and not get to spend hardly any time with my friends or family.... yea great job.

That really has nothing to do with working in the public sector and everything to do with having to do business travel.

 

[Dolph]

I bet every decision you make is in the best interests of the general public before those of yourself, right Dolph?

Curious as to why you don't jump into the public sector yourself, who doesn't want some excessive renumeration, eh?

I have a moral objection to working for an employer that takes money rather than earns it, so I wouldn't work for the public sector.

 

[Pottsey]

It might be generally accepted but it isn't necessarily true. It can also be distorted quite considerably by the near monopoly status of some public sector professions (i.e. teaching and nursing).

Some professions are better off pay wise in the private sector, some better off pay wise in the public sector.

Unless I am mistaken both private sector teachers and private sector nurses get paid a lot more then public sector. Just compare wages in private schools to public schools or private health care wages to NHS. IT is another area where public workers get underpaid compared to private.

 

[wildman]

yea right I really wish I got paid more. When I joined I was told flat out that while I will not have a larger salary than the private sector the perks make up for it. When I first joined that was true to its word. Now they have stripped back every single perk.

So now not only am I earning less than a private sector work (of the same skillset as me) I am also on a pay freeze have no perks to this job and now they want to **** over my pension.

I have been working in the public sector for 7 years now. I have been offered jobs with rival contracters which are private companys but working for the government. With an offer of about double my salary I am earning now. Reason I havn't taken them jobs is two reasons. A) I don't really want to move from where I live now. B) I used to like the work I was doing and knowing that I was helping Britain.

As for my work being easy yea you know what I love having to travel the world (for work) in economy. Then as soon as I land get straight into work. No time for rest or anything becasue we have to "save" money. I love having to travel constantly overseas and absolutly cripple my social life and time spent with family and friends because I have to work. I love having to go overseas and getting put into a crap hotel because we need to "save" money. I love having to spend my own money overseas just so I can live fairly comfortably while I work 12+hours a day. So many people say to me you have a great job get to see the world for free.... er no I get to travel to a country spend most of my time at work then go back to my crappy hotel because I am nackered and not get to spend hardly any time with my friends or family.... I get to see no pay rise for the next few years and now I get to see what was a great pension go down the drain where I will have to pay more into it and work longer. Yea great job.

If its that bad I am sorry to say quit and join the private sector. Your last paragraph is just mindless drivel. In the private sector the same thing happens, trips overseas for work are exactly that work, not a frigging jolly. Again if you hate it that much come to the private sector where the grass is green and we quaff champagne for breakfast every day.

 

[Adsta]

Adsta
Location: In my own world

What the hell does my location have to do with anything ? I simply do not want people on a public forum to know where I live......

I don't care what you all think my circumstances are my own. I am simply telling you, through my own experience, that public sector work is not all MP's and fun parties with wine like some of you seem to think it is.

 

[wildman]

I have a moral objection to working for an employer that takes money rather than earns it, so I wouldn't work for the public sector.

That makes no sense Dolph ? How do you think / expect the public services to be paid for then if not through taxation ?

The answer is not to privatise everything as that comes with its own set of unique problems also, especially for key services.

 

[Pottsey]

I have a moral objection to working for an employer that takes money rather than earns it, so I wouldn't work for the public sector.

So how would you teach children? Do you think children should be charged money to learn! you have a strange view of the world. I guess you want to scarp all free library’s as well.

Just how would you make the public sector jobs work then if they are not allowed to take money rather than earn money?

 

[Glaucus]

Unless I am mistaken both private sector teachers and private sector nurses get paid a lot more then public sector. Just compare wages in private schools to public schools or private health care wages to NHS. IT is another area where public workers get underpaid compared to private.

That's what he means. The monopoly distorts it.
If all schools were private do you think teachers would get a pay rise to the elite private school standards?
Of course they wouldn't, because the general school will never charge private school fees, even if they went private.

As such the monopoly increase the apart pay discrepancies.

 

[Adsta]

If its that bad I am sorry to say quit and join the private sector. Your last paragraph is just mindless drivel. In the private sector the same thing happens, trips overseas for work are exactly that work, not a frigging jolly. Again if you hate it that much come to the private sector where the grass is green and we quaff champagne for breakfast every day.

I'm not saying that life is any better in private sector. I'm just telling you what it is like for me in the public sector. Yea your right that last bit was drivel I kinda ranted on a bit when that wasn't my intention. It just annoys me that joe bloggs seem to assume that all public sector workers are "living the high life" when it is simply not thae case.

As for the work. I've already got a job in Brussels for march 2012. So come next year I will be leaving the Public sector and will not be looking to go back.

 

[Dolph]

That makes no sense Dolph ? How do you think / expect the public services to be paid for then if not through taxation ?

The answer is not to privatise everything as that comes with its own set of unique problems also, especially for key services.

So how would you teach children? Do you think children should be charged money to learn! you have a strange view of the world. I guess you want to scarp all free library’s as well.

Just how would you make the public sector jobs work then if they are not allowed to take money rather than earn money?

The objection can be reduced substantially by creating a state that enables access to services provided within a competitive market rather than provide services themselves, along with reforms to taxation and benefits to ensure fair and equal treatment as I have advocated in the past.

 

[SteveOBHave]

I have a moral objection...

I have a moral objection to being punished for something that I have nothing to do with and no power to change.

The whole 'Striking culture' is flawed and petulant IMO.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

What the hell does my location have to do with anything ? I simply do not want people on a public forum to know where I live......

I don't care what you all think my circumstances are my own. I am simply telling you, through my own experience, that public sector work is not all MP's and fun parties with wine like some of you seem to think it is.

I was basically taking a swipe at your contradictory rant. You have a better job offer, that will be easier and pay better. You currently feel your job is hard work and taking a big toll on your life, and pays less.

You really are in 'your own world' if this is true and you let it persist .

 

[RDM]

Unless I am mistaken both private sector teachers and private sector nurses get paid a lot more then public sector.

Pretty much covered in the first part of my post regarding a public sector near monopoly distorting things. The assumption I would make (and it is purely that) would be that the private schools/hospitals are able to pay better due to increased income and so enable them to attract better staff. Though I haven't looked at salary rates yet to see what the difference actually is as far as teaching goes (first I need to pass my degree, then my PGCE and then get any teaching job without worrying too much about where I work to start off with!).

Just compare wages in private schools to public schools or private health care wages to NHS. IT is another area where public workers get underpaid compared to private.

Or compare private social care with public social care workers and see a massive pay disparity in favour of public workers. My wife started her working life as basic office admin in the public sector and the pay was much better than she could expect in the private sector. As I said, it will vary from position to position, profession to profession so a blanket "The pay is worse" statement is just not going to work.

That aside, no one seems to be able to answer the question of where the money should come from to fund the extra cost of pensions. What tax rises or budget cuts would we like to see? What part of the education budget would you like to see cut to afford the pensions of teachers for example?

 

[Pottsey]

The objection can be reduced substantially by creating a state that enables access to services provided within a competitive market rather than provide services themselves, along with reforms to taxation and benefits to ensure fair and equal treatment as I have advocated in the past.

Isn’t that what we have now with private, academy’s and free schools?
The Job Evolution scheme has just been ran to provide fair and equal treatment. So just what are you complaining about?

EDIT: outside schools I do agree taxation and benefits still need a change.

 

[wildman]

The objection can be reduced substantially by creating a state that enables access to services provided within a competitive market rather than provide services themselves, along with reforms to taxation and benefits to ensure fair and equal treatment as I have advocated in the past.

Ok I get this, but do you think a privatised health service would provide better or worse service to their 'customers'. DO you think the private providers would be more interested in balancing bank sheets or actually saving lives.

I am not going to disagree with you on the fact that the NHS needs some kind of reform due to the insane levels of wastage that currently occur, but is moving it towards a profit driven solution really the answer when we are talking about real peoples lives being at stake.

I don't think the drive for profits is compatible with the need to spend on saving lives, share holders want value for money, not sob stories about why Billy needs 500 grands worth of treatment to give him 1 more years worth of life and time with this family.

 

[leaskovski]

The Misses works in the public sector and says she is striking, though wasn't very sure she wanted to. The whole fight of, 'The pension scheme for my job is stupidly good, I don't have a problem with it being changed', against 'the union needs support or it will be weakened and thus won't be able to fight for true issues'.