Universities 2012 on-wards

Admiral Huddy said:
Firstly, is there really any career that’s warrants a £40k plus debt for a very small chance that of employment in the chosen field?
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If a decent job (one that at least enables you to start paying off the debt) was guaranteed, than yes it is. Preferably in the chosen field (as IMO, what's the point?). However you could argue that, if you didn't get said job than you've not lost anything? Except 3 years of your life and the earning/experience potential they have provided.

I didn't go to uni as I thought it would be a waste of money in my chosen field. I've yet to be proven wrong 3 years later.
 
Dave said:
Not quite sure what you mean - straight to postgrad studies? Most of the postgrad students here (MPhil - I don't think Cam offers that many MSc courses; MA is a conferred degree here) come straight from undergrad with a 2:1 / first (preferred). The odd course asks for undergrad plus experience, but I don't think you'd get onto any masters course without an undergrad degree? (even at the lower-ranked universities)
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It's worth a shot. Uni's are desperate to fill empty spaces at the moment. Many are already relaxing undergrad entry requirements. Some may also be relaxing their postgrad entry requirements also...
 
MBennett said:
If I were going to uni now I would seriously consider doing it at one of those English speaking Dutch unis I have read about for £2k, in addition to being a LOT cheaper I believe that would look better on a CV than the most UK unis.

The loan scares the pants off me, but I am very averse to debt (I thought £1k a year was a rip off back in the day and had a part time job to cover it!). I am under the impression the interest is something like RPI +3% (so 8% at the mo) and would require the student to earn something like £38/39K just to start paying off the actual debt (anything less just digs into the interest).

Additionally I can see the minimum amount being subject to fiscal drag and never raised, so while £21k might not seem that bad now, 10 years down the line it will probably be minimum wage.

I am also under the impression that this debt carries charges for being paid off early AND will remain even after a bankruptcy - a bad deal if you ask me.
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But isn't the debt written off automatically after X amount of years though?
 
Would you classify her future income tax liability as an unlimited debt?

if not, why view the student loan, which behaves in exactly the same (but more generous) way as a debt?
 
Admiral Huddy said:
Only for courses in medicine, dentistry, and veterinary medicine/science. The rest it's the 15th Jan 2012 :)


http://www.ucas.com/students/importantdates
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is she actually applying to cambridge ? i know if applying for oxbridge you have to apply early and i read " Deadline for receipt at UCAS of applications to Oxford or Cambridge, and all with choices for courses in medicine, dentistry, and veterinary medicine/science to reach UCAS." as saying. apply to oxbridge before now. and if you are also applying for medicine etc same rule applies to other universities as well
 
If she gets into Cambridge the cost is worth it.

i know nothing about Extended public services or criminology so couldn't possibly comment on whether 40k debt would be worth it?

Does debt really truly matter? if she pays off 1k a year for the rest of her working life is that not outweighed by the satisfaction she would have from working in her chosen field?
 
Hi Huddy. Is she doing a BTEC at college? I'm not sure on this, but I don't think Cambridge accepts that for most courses.

I too am applying to university this year (and already have an offer from my 1st choice :D). The cost isn't an issue for me, for several reasons, some of which apply to you:

.There are many loans/grants available. The government offers these, most are means-tested, so your daughter should be able to get something.

.A lot of places aren't that expensive. I'm probably going to uni in London, it's going to be very expensive for me, but every other place I've looked has reasonable living costs.

.You don't pay back student loans straight away. Sure, 40k sounds a lot, but think about it, she graduates at 21, and the chances are that the retirement age will be at least 70 by the time she retires. That's potentially 49 years to pay back 40k. Less than 1k a year, for a degree (which if it's a good one, is a powerful thing)

.For me, as I'm wanting to study medicine, it's a very long course. After the first 3 or 4 years, the NHS sponsors the remaining years of my course.

What course did she apply to study, and at which universities? Is she in the same boat as I am (18 on entry)?

Admiral Huddy said:
Only for courses in medicine, dentistry, and veterinary medicine/science. The rest it's the 15th Jan 2012 :)


[URL]http://www.ucas.com/students/importantdates[/URL]
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Oxbridge deadline was 15th too.
 
[TW]Fox;20679808 said:
Treat it as a graduate tax and forget about it. It's not conventional debt.
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This.

The debt doesn't burden your life like a normal loan, it just means when you get a pay rise you get slightly less than you think and bonuses at work get 9% eaten out of them.
 
Admiral Huddy said:
Only for courses in medicine, dentistry, and veterinary medicine/science. The rest it's the 15th Jan 2012 :)


http://www.ucas.com/students/importantdates
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And certain universities (namely Oxbridge) unless they've changed it in the last two years...

Again what is she studying? That may effect the value. To be honest I could have done an accountancy qualification rather than doing economics as I'm going to do an accountancy qualification after this anyway. Not that I knew that when I applied. Saying that I'll get further up the ladder in future thanks to it. I'm also doing a subject I enjoy for three years of my life. It's great from that perspective.

As for the debt. She probably won't end up paying it off anyway. If you want a rough financial breakdown I'm spending about 12k a year. It breaks down to 3k in food, 4k in living (went up to 5.2k in my second year due to longer rent agreements) and 3.3 or whatever it is for tuition fees. But yeah it isn't really conventional debt, I don't see the tuition fee money the government gives me. It just goes straight to uni.

Guess thats up to 18k a year for you.

I'm currently at uni in Norwich, UEA. but did apply to Cambridge and LSE.

I do agree it strikes me as somewhat of a squeezed middle classes....

As a side point, if you have any other questions/concerns etc... Feel free to send me an email in trust. Chelmsfords also my closest large town at Christmas, so if you want to talk about it or something, you know, get someone's experience, or whatever, feel free to get in touch. Not sure what you'd want to know, but I could try and help xD


Edit: Ok missed the Criminlogoy. If she can get a job in it I think it's worth it. However I think it's an industry that does

kd
 
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Admiral Huddy said:
However, as you know only to well, the uni costs are trebled that of this years intake. I’ve calculated that she’ll come out of the end of the three years with the minimum of £42K debt plus other living costs, travel, interest etc. I had saved a little towards this but nowhere near the kind of costs are they mentioning. All of a sudden reality bites.

Firstly, is there really any career that’s warrants a £40k plus debt for a very small chance that of employment in the chosen field?

Secondly, does the qualification really give her any further opportunities that her college BTeC wouldn’t or where other people have gained necessary and essential job training?

Lastly, is it going to be that students actually won’t bother applying? Early indications that UCAS applications are already down by this time last year.
It appears to me that University will really be one to those that are on either side of the income spectrum. Those in the middle and the majority hit the hardest.
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My parents had to change around their plans for subsidising me as the year i started uni, sep 2009, my dad took a massive pay cut, 25% iirc, which completely changed around how i would be paying. Ended up having to take the maintenance loan to use for rent, bills, everything and what little left over for living costs. Was a huge difference to what i was expecting e.g loan for living costs and parents paying rent which seemed to be the norm for most people when i started. However in the scheme of things the amount of money borrowed remains the same either way and as people have mentioned above it's not like a normal loan.

As for qualification, depends entirely on what she's studying. I know for a fact my degree is virtually worthless when it comes to getting a job in the field i want to, but the learning helped narrow down what exactly i wanted to do from what was a very vague idea when i first started.

I think next year and the year after will see quite a big drop in number of people applying. I know a lot of my friends siblings are planning not to go and my brother is going through the decision at the moment. Ultimately i think it comes down to the future career, is it possible to get onto the ladder straight through work experience or is a degree the much more likely route?

You are completely right about the income point. After my dads pay cut i obviously get way less money from him than i would have done, but i am still at the very bottom of the student finance ladder, getting over £3000 less per year than some of the people i live with who in reality are just as well off beforehand.


oh and
15 October 2011

Deadline for receipt at UCAS of applications to Oxford or Cambridge, and all with choices for courses in medicine, dentistry, and veterinary medicine/science to reach UCAS
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She might be applying for deferred entry? Though again Id assume thats the same deadline and theyll be doing all the undergrad interviews right about now...

Also isnt East Anglia also based at Cambridge too? So may not mean Oxbridge...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
alx said:
But isn't the debt written off automatically after X amount of years though?
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I believe so, OP mentions 30 years so I am guessing its that. Essentially its a tax, quite an unfair one I feel (in that it hits middle income earners the most, kids with rich mummies and daddies wont need a loan with punitive rates and charges).

All I know is that I had a TINY loan ~£2k and paying that back annoyed the **** out of me. When you first start work and need to move out (pay rent, get a deposit etc), that extra £100 a month would come in mighty handy!!
 
I think it can depend on the course as well... I came out with 15K debt 5 years ago, my degree was in computer science and I got a 2:1 I found it very difficult to get into London with it, very competative and low paid. I ended up working my way up in LTSB where I worked part time while at Uni - 3 years after Uni I had gone up 3 grades and earning 37K - i've always been paying off the loan and have around 6k left now.

I would probably not go to Uni if I was at that age now as I don't think it provides enough benefit in todays markey unless you are going into a very specific field where you need it, i.e. medicine. Even though I thoroughly enjoyed it, I think 40k+ is to much weight for my shoulders!
 
Admiral Huddy said:
My daughter is in the process of registering for intake at Uni next year. We’ve been to see a campus at Cambridge last weekend and have to say it’s all very impressive. She’s completed the UCAS on-line registration this week and has selected her five preferences.

However, as you know only to well, the uni costs are trebled that of this years intake. I’ve calculated that she’ll come out of the end of the three years with the minimum of £42K debt plus other living costs, travel, interest etc. I had saved a little towards this but nowhere near the kind of costs are they mentioning. All of a sudden reality bites.

Although I’m more than happy subsidise some of her living expenses I have to say that the thought of my daughter having such a high debt scares the pants off me. I feel kind of guilty that this should be my burden but my wife has made it perfectly clear that this is her choice.

The problem with the government now cutting the subsidised tuition fees leave me a little sceptical about the whole thing.

Firstly, is there really any career that’s warrants a £40k plus debt for a very small chance that of employment in the chosen field?

Secondly, does the qualification really give her any further opportunities that her college BTeC wouldn’t or where other people have gained necessary and essential job training?

Lastly, is it going to be that students actually won’t bother applying? Early indications that UCAS applications are already down by this time last year.

Students would normally see the “uni years” as a first opportunity to leave home and lead an independent life style away from their parents.. but is this really worth the cost? Many students may seek commutable universities as living in just won’t be an option.

It appears to me that University will really be one to those that are on either side of the income spectrum. Those in the middle and the majority hit the hardest.

In my daughter eyes, she sees that although she’ll have the large debt, she can also pay the small repayments when she reaches a salary of 22k (thereabouts) until the debt is forfeited after 30 years. That’s all very well, but I’d expect someone at university to have high prospects and a highly paid job at the end otherwise what’s the point.

Students are now facing much tougher choices if in fact some have any. I was wondering if there were any parents in the same position, or any perspective students that are up against the same conundrum.

Thanks for reading
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If it makes you feel any better, I will come out with £56k of debt (based on your £14k a year)

See your Daughter is already better off than somebody :p
 
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As mentioned above, the course and what she intends to do after univeristy will make a big difference as to whether it is worthwhile.

If she does decide to go there are a few ways she could mitigate some of the costs.

Taking a year out (to work) might be extremely be beneficial. Not only can she save some money so she doesn't need to take on so much debt, but it will help her appreciate what £42k of debts really mean. When you're 18 it doesn't always mean much until you have actually gone out and worked 9-5 week after week. The extra maturity it will also give her will help her achieve more while studying.

If she then still decides to go to univeristy, it is possible to take on a part time job to help with the living costs on all but they very toughest courses (medicine etc). Working the long holidays while living at home with you she may also be able to pay a large part of the fees up front, sparing herself from the debt after she leaves.

Personally, I think that taking a year out to work before I went to university would have benefitted me immensely - it's something I'd would certainly encourage my own children to do.

A degree can open doors, particularly a good degree from a good university. However, not students will get value for money from their time at university so it's worth being sure before committing.
 
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