30/11 Strikes.

[iamtheoneneo]

I work in a university, and am a member of Unison, but have just crossed the picket line to come in to work. I support my colleagues right to strike for what they believe in, but also at the same time I reserve the right to not join in with something I don't agree with.

I don't believe the strikes will achieve anything in the long term, and I holding on to the current pensions isn't sustainable at the moment.

Crossing the actual picket line wasn't too bad as I managed to sneak in a trade entrance, but the fact that my office is a big glass box on the front of the building, overlooking the Council office picket line isn't great, lol.

same, think its ridiculous striking - solves absolutely nothing.
Wasnt to bad here, just said morning to them picked up a leaflet and went in, place is crawling with security so nothing will kick off.'

 

[MagicBoy]

They didn't have a tax bill for £6bn, nor has anything gone unpaid

5 seconds on Google finds this :
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1704527/Taxman-let-Vodafone-off-6bn-bill.html

 

[Deleted member 66701]

As amigafan has been constantly stating the Government are unwilling to make any specific offer.

Government keep dangling the carrot and stick whilst forgetting public setor workers aren't donkeys

 

[Dolph]

Is that not on an individual basis you would need contributions that high? Given the pensionable age and natural attrition of members there are always going to be more people paying into the scheme than drawing on it.
If it's the case that additional funding is needed to meet the obligations why is the increase in employee contributions not being ringfenced to that effect?

Public sector employment numbers are reducing, not increasing, so the Ponzi scheme doesn't work (relies on ever increasing membership).

I would fully agree that the new funding model is still flawed, in the past I have advocated a move to a fully funded pension fund with a choice of pay in/pay out approaches:

• Defined contribution pension with fixed employer/employee contributions
• Defined benefit scheme based on career averages and regular revaluation and variable employee contributions (fixed employer contributions) to ensure the finance is there.
• Defined benefit scheme based on final salary with revaluation and variable employee contributions

That would prevent any re-occurrence of these problems and ensure fairness to both taxpayers and public sector employees.

 

[MagicBoy]

Why let facts get in the way of a day off?

It's not a day off. I'm losing a day's pay and the pension contributions that go with it.

Anyway, that's enough of futile arguments for today. I'm going to productively spend the rest of the day visiting my nephew.

 

[iamtheoneneo]

5 seconds on Google finds this :
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1704527/Taxman-let-Vodafone-off-6bn-bill.html

Vodafone in 'started the recession' shocker

 

[aardvark]

Yes there is - you've just bought into the great Tory/Daily Mail con of the 21st century.

lol - don't be ridiculous.

 

[Dolph]

This is correct, to paraphrase Lord Hutton, it should not be 'a race to the bottom'. Unfortunately, the government can't really force reform on private sector pensions, certainly not as easily as it can public sector.

The difference is that the private sector has customers, and can't just threaten people with prison to fund remuneration as the public sector can.

Europe generally is pricing itself out of the world market, forced increases in pension provision would make this problem worse, and result in less employment overall

 

[platypus]

As amigafan has been constantly stating the Government are unwilling to make any specific offer.

haven't they?

 

[Glaucus]

The issue of funding is a complete red herring. All the evidence shows that the cost of public sector pensions is actually going to fall, rather than rise. .

That's the red hearing, why doesn't it matter if cost falls if there is still a ~1000billion defecite.

 

[Dolph]

5 seconds on Google finds this :
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1704527/Taxman-let-Vodafone-off-6bn-bill.html

Do you really think that, if there was actually a £6bn tax bill that was in any way legitimate, it would have been excused?

There was no tax bill, the HMRC wanted there to be, but knew legally they didn't have a leg to stand on with it.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Public sector employment numbers are reducing, not increasing, so the Ponzi scheme doesn't work (relies on ever increasing membership).

I would fully agree that the new funding model is still flawed, in the past I have advocated a move to a fully funded pension fund with a choice of pay in/pay out approaches:

• Defined contribution pension with fixed employer/employee contributions
• Defined benefit scheme based on career averages and regular revaluation and variable employee contributions (fixed employer contributions) to ensure the finance is there.
• Defined benefit scheme based on final salary with revaluation and variable employee contributions

That would prevent any re-occurrence of these problems and ensure fairness to both taxpayers and public sector employees.

Which of those three ideas are the government proposing?

 

[Basher]

It's not a day off. I'm losing a day's pay and the pension contributions that go with it.

Anyway, that's enough of futile arguments for today. I'm going to productively spend the rest of the day visiting my nephew.

So you're at work today? No? Then it's a day off. I didn't say it was paid.

 

[Glaucus]

Unfortunately, the government can't really force reform on private sector pensions, certainly not as easily as it can public sector.

the private sector has already massively reduced their forcasted deficits
And pales in comparison to public sector. Al though that is only final salary.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8557435.stm

Full deficite although outdated
http://www.independent.co.uk/money/pensions/pension-deficit-cut-to-1586-billion-6258964.html

 

[Dolph]

yes they have?

The unions like to play 'lets pretend' when it comes to reality vs their opinion. Their idea of negotiation is where the other side capitulates, if they don't, there was 'no negotiation and no offer'.

It's far easier to trick their members if they are dishonest about things.

 

[Jay794]

My girlfriend works at the local hospital, she's on strike but it doesn't start untilt 12pm, so she gets a lay in.

I was amazed to find out that their pension is only about £5500 per year?! how can anyone live on that?! I though the average pension would be at least £12,000 per year

 

[Deleted member 66701]

haven't they?

No they haven't.

Can any teacher, NHS or civil servant public sector worker on here show me the letter that the government has sent you that details in writing what the offer is?

No, didn't think so.

The Unions have contonuously asked the Government to put these proposals into a written offer so that they may ballot thier members on rejection or acceptance. The government have so far refused to do so.

 

[MagicBoy]

I didn't say it was paid.

You didn't say it wasn't either.

 

[Dolph]

Which of those three ideas are the government proposing?

None of them, the new proposal remains an unfunded ponzi scheme with unfair taxpayer liability for the difference between what is paid in and what is paid out.

 

[dirtydog]

My girlfriend works at the local hospital, she's on strike but it doesn't start untilt 12pm, so she gets a lay in.

I was amazed to find out that their pension is only about £5500 per year?! how can anyone live on that?! I though the average pension would be at least £12,000 per year

Don't forget you'd get the state pension in addition to that.