Anyone think The Beatles are overrated?

Dimple said:
Yeah, one only knows how to read notes on a piece of paper while the other knows what makes a good song.
I'll let Easyrider tell you the story about Frank Zappa (talentless) and (I think) the New York Philharmonic Orchestra.
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You're surely not seriously suggesting that Frank Zappa had no talent. You may or may not like his music, but he was talented beyond belief.
 
I do not think they are overrated at all, If i had to choose the best band ever, it would probably be them (might not be my favourite though).

My favourite song of all time is probably Here Comes The Sun;)
 
Dimple said:
But you need to know before making claims.
Before 62 the charts were mostly full of crap and The Beatles were a revelation.
The Beatles pulled the charts out of your so called decline.
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The charts were / are always full of crap, and very little musical talent in either performance or songwriting / composition can be found within them.

This isnt the music industries fault however, but the average music fan who will buy any kind of simplistic talentless pap that the industry puts out.

You cant compare chart music as having talent or anything decent against a complex orchestral or opera performance. The number of genuinely talented artists in chart music are so insignificant that tthey could be counted on one, or to be overly generous, maybe two hands.

Unless you can explain how the Beatles were better musical geniuses than Mozart or Chopin, and include a note by note musical analysis of their scores, I dont buy that the Beatles or any other such popular chart bands are talented.
 
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bhavv said:
The charts were / are always full of crap, and very little musical talent in either performance or songwriting / composition can be found within them.

This isnt the music industries fault however, but the average music fan who will buy any kind of simplistic talentless pap that the industry puts out.

You cant compare chart music as having talent or anything decent against a complex orchestral or opera performance. The number of genuinely talented artists in chart music are so insignificant that tthey could be counted on one, or to be overly generous, maybe two hands.

Unless you can explain how the Beatles were better musical geniuses than Mozart or Chopin, and include a note by note musical analysis of their scores, I dont buy that the Beatles or any other such popular chart bands are talented.
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You started comparing the musicians in an orchestra compared to The Beatles so that is the better comparison.
One of them is lost without music in front of them and haven't got any ideas of their own while The Beatles knew how to use several chords.
I'm a massive Mozart fan but boy did he also write some crap.
 
I would say Mozart is on par with the Beatles, they're both the best in terms of exemplifying the 'purest' form within their respective genres (and arguably, time period).

I bet there were a few talented folk singers etc in Mozarts time who couldn't write a note down on paper and thus their music is lost (or at least dissipated through the generations)

Music is for everyone. The criteria is really down to the individual. To suggest classical music requires a deep understanding and appreciation of the nuances and processes involved is nonsense. It doesn't matter how it's produced, at the end of the day it's music made for people and it's judged using their ears, across all class divisions. The beauty is that it doesn't have to require any mental processing whatsoever, it works on all levels, and largerly automatic i.e. emotional. Arguably this is why The Beatles were so succesful and not because of their know-how on several chords (albeit given the fact that most classical composers probably know the entire chordal spectrum but don't use it as quite ingeniously)

Are The Beatles overrated compared to classical musicians/composers? No, musicians simply got equalized by levelling the playing field with technological platforms.

You can't really say that someone is overrated because you don't happen to like them when the vast majority do. It's redundant. It's like asking the question when you already know the answer. There's only overrated in your book, or by a select few, their not going to be overrated in general, are they?

Take 10 people, 7 of them like the Beatles, 2 of them think they're ok and 1 guy doesn't like them.
You ask them their opinions on the Beatles.
You then ask them their opinions again on the Beatles.
Hmmm.
 
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Robosapien said:
Take 10 people, 7 of them like the Beatles, 2 of them think they're ok and 1 guy doesn't like them.
You ask them their opinions on the Beatles.
You then ask them their opinions again on the Beatles.
Hmmm.
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It depends on the 1 guy who doesn't like them and if he's got a brain.
There are many artists I don't rate such as RHCP, U2 and believe it or not KISS but I know where they stand in the structure of things and why they are so popular.
 
Dimple said:
It depends on the 1 guy who doesn't like them and if he's got a brain.
There are many artists I don't rate such as RHCP, U2 and believe it or not KISS but I know where they stand in the structure of things and why they are so popular.
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I was just reading something by Charlie Brooker as to how RHCP were so popular when he couldn't find a single person who genuinely liked their music/declared themselves as an avid fan.
It is a mystery, I guess...
 
Dimple said:
One of them is lost without music in front of them and haven't got any ideas of their own
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I can play by ear and from memory with 100% accuracy / improvise / compose and songwrite, but my wrist injury has prevented me from doing that, and my composition ideas were all of a very difficult standard that took me a very long time to be able to play. Other people on my music modules were actually better than me at everything too - both performance and composition. Just because someone chooses to perform in any area of music doesnt mean that they dont have ideas of their own. The only thing is that music containing genuine talent is not popular as it doesnt appeal to the average record buying simpleton.

And in all fairness, the 'ideas' and songs that the Beatles wrote were lame.

while The Beatles knew how to use several chords.
The Beatles knew how to use several chords.
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I knew all my scales and chords and how to use them when I was 7.

Winifred Atwell and Scott Joplin werent too long before the beatles, and had such more wonderful music than almost anything since the charts and 'popular music' took over.

Nowadays, genuinely talented musicians such as this guy can rarely make it as popular musicians:


^^ He learnt that and his other performances entirely by ear and improvisation as score music does not yet exist for Winifred Atwell's compositions.

As for string based instruments / guitars, I cant really recall much else other than this example, which I seriously doubt that any member of the Beatles, Oasis or any other such guitar based bands could have done at this kids age:

 
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bhavv said:
I can play by ear and from memory with 100% accuracy / improvise / compose and songwrite, but my wrist injury has prevented me from doing that, and my composition ideas were all of a very difficult standard that took me a very long time to be able to play.

I knew all my scales and chords and how to use them when I was 7.
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Dear lord bhav, it's like everything you post it aimed at winding me up. How do you do it?!

Nowadays, genuinely talented musicians such as this guy can rarely make it as popular musicians
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If writing some of the most instantly recognisable and popular songs ever written isn't genuine musical talent, then I don't know what is :)
 
Writing songs which actually make sense would be a starter for being a talented songwriter, or which actually sound decent and arent simplistic mediocre compositions, or if they could actually sing.

Glaucus said:
Especially when not only were the icons, they spawned so many other bands and had influence of the music following them.
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Britney Spears also does this currently.

50-100 years from now, everyone will be reminiscing on how Britney was the best female musician in the history of music, just as Beatles fans overrate their favorite band.


Also Elvis Presley is one of the most widely loved, remembered and overrated popular musicians, yet he didnt write his own songs, and allegedly didnt play the guitar either (he just pretended to play one during his performances according to a lot of critics).
 
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