Dinosaurs are not real :(

bhavv · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:15

6 quotes dont represent the beliefs held by the majority of Christians, as much as you like to use them your personal opinions are only held by a minority of educated Christians.

I agree with the following opinions I found:

Actually, Christians do NOT believe in evolution. They believe that God created the Earth and everything in it, including man, which thus makes them NOT believe in evolution.

You can't be a Christian and believe in evolution. People who say they are Christians but believe in evolution and not true Christians if they won't accept that God created the world and everything in.

Evolution and Creation are exactly opposite processes. People who read the Bible should know God CREATED the earth / humans, therefore evolution is not something for a Christian to believe.

You cannot believe that God created man, and that Man evolved from a primitive ancestor at the same time.

Castiel · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:24

bhavv said:
6 quotes dont represent the beliefs held by the majority of Christians, as much as you like to use them your personal opinions are only held by a minority of educated Christians.

The quotes are from two Popes, who are the authority in the Roman Catholic Church and whose teachings are required to be followed by the Catholic Faithful, another quote is directly from the Catholic Catechism which is the Doctrine of the Catholic Church and again is representative of the required beliefs of the Catholic faithful.

The quotes regards the Clergy Letter Project are signed personally by 12,757 leaders of the Christian Church in the US, 482 Leaders of the Jewish Faith in the US, and 240 leaders of the Unitarian Churches in the US.

These signatures represent the majority of Christians and Jews within the United States, which is coincidently the home of the majority of Creationists, and as such is illustrative of the fact that only a minority of Christians hold the views that you falsely attribute to the majority.

You are simply and irrevocably wrong Bhavv. Accept it and move on.

Metalface Mark · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:26

My sister/brother in law are both creationists, there is no reasoning with them, to them dinosaurs are a test of faith to them.

They are both well educated intelligent people (well, my sister is anyway), anything that cant be explained is explained as a test of faith.

Gilly · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:29

Metalface Mark said:
My sister/brother in law are both creationists, there is no reasoning with them, to them dinosaurs are a test of faith to them.

They are both well educated intelligent people (well, my sister is anyway), anything that cant be explained is explained as a test of faith.

I actually find that really sad.

Will they teach this to their young?

bhavv · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:29

Castiel said:
The quotes are from two Popes, who are the authority in the Roman Catholic Church and whose teachings are required to be followed by the Catholic Faithful, another quote is directly from the Catholic Catechism which is the Doctrine of the Catholic Church and again is representative of the required beliefs of the Catholic faithful.

So what? How does this represent what the average Christian believes?

Castiel said:
These signatures represent the majority of Christians and Jews within the United States

NO THEY ******* DONT!

Gilly said:
I actually find that really sad.

Will they teach this to their young?

Of course they will. This is the true Christian majority and their beliefs. They are withheld and passed on through indoctrination of their children, who may, or may not accept those beliefs.

Castiel · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:34

bhavv said:
So what? How does this represent what the average Christian believes?

It represents what a Catholic believes and as Catholicism is the largest denomination of Christianity in the world just those three quotes pertaining to Catholic teaching and doctrine represents more than the average Christian by default.

bhavv said:
NO THEY ******* DONT!

In fact they do, and resorting to swearing at me will not change that.

bhavv · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:36

Castiel said:
These signatures represent the majority of Christians and Jews within the United States, which is coincidently the home of the majority of Creationists, and as such is illustrative of the fact that only a minority of Christians hold the views that you falsely attribute to the majority.

Ok, here we go, proof that you are wrong as always:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/22/opinion/polls/main965223.shtml

(CBS) Most Americans do not accept the theory of evolution. Instead, 51 percent of Americans say God created humans in their present form, and another three in 10 say that while humans evolved, God guided the process. Just 15 percent say humans evolved, and that God was not involved.

White evangelicals (77 percent), weekly churchgoers (74 percent) and conservatives (64 percent), are mostly likely to say God created humans in their present form.

Castiel said:
In fact they do, and resorting to swearing at me will not change that.

I didnt swear at you, Mr. Genius who thinks he knows everything.

Gilly · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:36

bhavv said:
Of course they will. This is the true Christian majority and their beliefs. They are withheld and passed on through indoctrination of their children, who may, or may not accept those beliefs.

bhavv · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:40

Second page of my link confirms why Castiel is 'irrevocably wrong' - While the majority of people 'believe it is possible to believe in both God and Evolution', the majority of Christians simply do not as the poll indicates.

Two beliefs that very clearly contradict one another.

The majority of Christians do not accept or believe in Evolution, regardless of however many people want to believe that it is possible to believe in them both.

I dont believe it is, and the polls show that it isnt the case. How can you possibly believe in both of the following:

A) Man evolved from a primitive ancestor
B) God created Man in his current form (lolreligion)

Castiel · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:43

bhavv said:
Ok, here we go, proof that you are wrong as always:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/22/opinion/polls/main965223.shtml

Bhavv, even you cannot believe that a poll by CBS is more indicative of what the majority of Christians accept than the actual words of the leaders of the churches and what the doctrines of those churches actually require of their adherents...

Besides did you actually read the article in full, I doubt you did other wise you will have read:

Still, most Americans think it is possible to believe in both God and evolution. Sixty-seven percent say this is possible, while 29 percent disagree. Most demographic groups say it is possible to believe in both God and evolution, but just over half of white evangelical Christians say it is not possible....

...Opinions on this question are tied to one's views on the origin of human beings. Those who believe in evolution, whether guided by God or not, overwhelmingly think it is possible to believe in both God and evolution – 90 percent say this. However, people who believe God created humans in their present form are more divided: 48 percent think it possible to believe in both God and evolution, but the same number disagrees...

So even the evidence you have presented agrees with me Bhavv and refutes your own claims.

Now accept that you are wrong about this and move on.

I always find it amusing that people have to invent things to criticise Religion with, it is not as if Religion has got enough actual real examples that can be used in criticism.

bhavv · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:46

Castiel feel free to read the post above yours.

What most people think is 'possible to believe', doesnt equal what most believe actually do believe. This doesnt confirm your deeply held yet completely incorrect beliefs as true, you just lack the ability to understand the information you are given.

I dont understand how you, or anyone else can imagine that you possess any rationality.

Castiel · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:49

bhavv said:
Second page of my link confirms why Castiel is 'irrevocably wrong' - While the majority of people 'believe it is possible to believe in both God and Evolution', the majority of Christians simply do not as the poll indicates.

Two beliefs that very clearly contradict one another.

The majority of Christians do not accept or believe in Evolution, regardless of however many people want to believe that it is possible to believe in them both.

I dont believe it is, how can you possibly believe in both of the following:

A) Man evolved from a primitive ancestor
B) God created Man in his current form (lolreligion)

Bhavv, you obviously are not reading it correctly:

It refers to White Evangelicals, and that is certainly not the majority of Christians, either in the United States or Globally.

90% of those who stated that it is possible to believe in both Evolution and God also stated that they believed in Evolution.

Besides, in which statistical paper did you learn that 808 people are more representative than over 13,000?

bhavv · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:50

Castiel said:
So even the evidence you have presented agrees with me Bhavv and refutes your own claims.

No it definitely does not.

It is nothing but a politically (in)correct falacy that you can believe in religion and evolution at the same time, feel free to answer this:

bhavv said:
I dont believe it is, and the polls show that it isnt the case. How can you possibly believe in both of the following:

A) Man evolved from a primitive ancestor
B) God created Man in his current form (lolreligion)

Castiel · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:53

bhavv said:
I didnt swear at you, Mr. Genius who thinks he knows everything.

Maybe you can explain the significance of the starred out word in the quote for you below, if that is not representative of a swear word, as the statement is directed at me, then the word is also directed at me.

bhavv said:
NO THEY ******* DONT!

You are getting far to angry and confrontational as usual Bhavv, it is not necessary and being aggressive and belligerent is simply pointless and childish.

bhavv · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:54

Castiel said:
Maybe you can explain the significance of the starred out word in the quote for you below

Its called an expression.

You still refuse to answer this:

bhavv said:
I dont believe it is, and the polls show that it isnt the case. How can you possibly believe in both of the following:

A) Man evolved from a primitive ancestor
B) God created Man in his current form (lolreligion)

Why is it that you keep on evading such a simple question?

Scougar · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:55

What is 'that majority' to you bhavv? I think that your perception of the majority is the idea of what a Christian is in your own head, rather than looking at the supporting evidence.

A lot of the 'problems' stem from the way in which Christianity (and similar denominations) are marketted/sold. Without intending to be offensive to a lot of people, I would say the 'average' Christian probably doesn't go beyond the bible that much, maybe does some home groups or other work, but generally isn't as engaged as they should be. So.. really they don't have a great understanding of where the bible comes from, and often take it literally (and it's sold that way by pastors/vicars, although this is changing nowadays).

I'm certainly not a creationist, I see too much evidence from science. I also understand the the general level of education (of the audience) when a lot of the scripture was written was a lot lower, so things had to be put across in stories (parables etc) in order to convey a message. This is where it gets dangerous, as sometimes these are taken literally, even arguements over single words that might change the meaning of the text are taken.

It's all a bit daft really, and I think that Christianity is actually in a bit of a pickle. Certainly doesn't mean that I discount it.

BTW, I think the last Anglican church I went to had a Hot Female Barrister in high heels as the vicar lol.

Castiel · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:56

bhavv said:
No it definitely does not.

It is nothing but a politically (in)correct falacy that you can believe in religion and evolution at the same time, feel free to answer this:

I have already answered it, as have over 13,000 church leaders, several Popes and if you read earlier in the thread so have several Early Church Fathers.

You are simply wrong in your understanding of what the majority of Christians believe, while in the United States there is a significant lobby that promotes 'Creationism' that doesn't signify a majority viewpoint as I have demonstrated.

bhavv · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:57

Scougar said:
What is 'that majority' to you bhavv?

You answered your own question:

A lot of the 'problems' stem from the way in which Christianity (and similar denominations) are marketted/sold. Without intending to be offensive to a lot of people, I would say the 'average' Christian probably doesn't go beyond the bible that much, maybe does some home groups or other work, but generally isn't as engaged as they should be. So.. really they don't have a great understanding of where the bible comes from, and often take it literally (and it's sold that way by pastors/vicars, although this is changing nowadays).

Yet no one here can even answer this question:

bhavv said:
I dont believe it is, and the polls show that it isnt the case. How can you possibly believe in both of the following:

A) Man evolved from a primitive ancestor
B) God created Man in his current form (lolreligion)

Why is it that you keep on evading such a simple question?

Castiel said:
I have already answered it

No you havnt, not since it was posted. Give me an answer in your own words, not by baseless quotes by popes / catholics who dont have the slightest clue about what evolution is, nor which represent the majority of their follower's opinions.

Castiel · 15 Dec 2011 at 15:59

bhavv said:
Its called an expression.

It is an expression of profanity, one aimed at me as the quote demonstrated.

bhavv said:
You still refuse to answer this:

Why is it that you keep on evading such a simple question?

I wasn't aware that it was a question that I was required to answer....I am not religious or a Christian.

As for what Christians believe, the quotes I gave answer your question if you read them.

jmc007 · 15 Dec 2011 at 16:00

bhavv said:
No my ideas were purely based on Biology.

The only way it is possible to create a human child is with a human sperm and egg. If you even had the most basic GSCE level understanding of genetics, you would know this.

Jesus would have needed half of his chromosomes to have come from a human father to be a valid human offspring, his existance would have only been possible if he had a human father that had impregnated Mary.

Now according to the bible, Jesus's father was God, and therefore according to genetics, God cant have been anything other than human.

A 'holy ghost' cannot create a human child, it is 100% impossible, and no amount of faith can deny basic proven science. The only way Jesus could have existed is if his father was a human.

I have 'O' Level understanding of Biology, yes, though you are trying to explain supernatural events in a natural way. Fail.
Are you excepting existence of the Holy Ghost? I determine not, so using it in your arguement fails aswell.
Your arguements are like the other end of the scale to Castiel's.