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Heaven and Hell
- Thread starter Arnie
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No. There's no evidence for them and what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence
If you don't, why do you believe the concepts were created?
To control people. Follow the rules we set in place and you'll be rewarded with heaven, don't and you'll be punished with hell even if you don't get caught.
Pretty clever really.
Soldato
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@Xcellenye I agree that we all have free will and choice, but we're talking about natural selection here, the wider picture. Our purpose on this earth is to reproduce.
Following your line of thought there though, why would god allow such suffering if he's so powerful? (I know this is a well used argument) and don't give me that rubbish about testing us, because if that's the case then he is a severely odious man.
Following your line of thought there though, why would god allow such suffering if he's so powerful? (I know this is a well used argument) and don't give me that rubbish about testing us, because if that's the case then he is a severely odious man.
I think he was referring to a Father Ted episode, but I might be wrong.
I never mentioned 'God'.. again if you choose to believe and god and hes testing you its your choice but i dont think i mentioned that? and with the reproducing thats what you believe, i'm not going to challenge you on that thats what you believe
Soldato
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Evolution and natural selection are scientific facts, not up for debate...
Shoud I mention fox hunting?
I don't believe in either.
Even if I was Christian I wouldn't believe in hell. No where in the bible does it say hell, although it does talk about lake of fire. But then I think that's a misunderstanding/translation error with time lines.
If hell did exist I wouldn't want to worship that God.
As for why. I think we are genetically coded to want to believe in something more. Most people and society fills that need with religion, some with CT/Aliens and some cling onto science and abuse it. A few like all things genetically don't have it. Just like adrenaline junkies, where most of the population would actively avoid such sports.
Even if I was Christian I wouldn't believe in hell. No where in the bible does it say hell, although it does talk about lake of fire. But then I think that's a misunderstanding/translation error with time lines.
If hell did exist I wouldn't want to worship that God.
As for why. I think we are genetically coded to want to believe in something more. Most people and society fills that need with religion, some with CT/Aliens and some cling onto science and abuse it. A few like all things genetically don't have it. Just like adrenaline junkies, where most of the population would actively avoid such sports.
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Soldato
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go for it, I don't understand how fox hunting contradicts natural selection
You choose to believe those scientific facts. This is how i mean this may actually be true or that maybe but you may choose not to believe whats true and go with something else.
While they are Scientific facts as we currently know them, Science would never state that they are not up for debate....Science doesn't work that way.
Your comments made me go cold, back in 1988, when 25, I had a bad m/c accident, & a funny experience.
Laying in the road, I had a person showing me a book, several pages the good things, other pages the the bad/ wrong things I've done in life.
Nothing like murder,etc, but lies & naughty things you did when your a kid some things happen when I was 5.
After what I saw, I don't wish to have it repeated, even now I wonder if I imagined it ,but the vision was so clear.
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Do we really need to get back in to the definition of fact & theory in scientific terminology again?
Man of Honour
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Absolutely, I'm concerned too that peoples lives are being destroyed because of what they or others believe. However a lot of what is perpetrated in the name of religion is precisely that - in name only, as the message(s) within the religion in no way excuse the actions that are taken by the people who say they follow it. That's more of a problem with people than the idea of religion though.
I'd say scientific positions are always up for debate, it's part of the point but you're right in that evolution as a theory has met every test proposed for it thus far - it may require amendments in future as could any theory to take account of circumstances that were not foreseen when it was developed but essentially the premise is as sound as they get.
//edit this second point can be ignored as it's already been clarified.
Soldato
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Do we really need to get back in to the definition of fact & theory in scientific terminology again?
This is why I stated they were scientific facts ie they're as close to facts as we are likely to get but can't be 100% proven, which is what both of you are about to say.
Do we really need to get back in to the definition of fact & theory in scientific terminology again?
Well it seems to consistently pass some people by. In fact the whole argument about whether terrorism is rooted in religious doctrine or political power struggle has equally been done to death.
People rarely change their mind, and even those who only in the last couple of threads said they accepted some alternative points as valid simply return with the same tired rhetoric a few days later in another thread.
I do feel there's much good that has happened as a result of religion, there's probably an equal amount of bad that has happened because of religion also. My problem with religion and the idea of "heaven" and "hell" is that their founders are greedy corrupt control freaks.
This video pretty much sums up my "faith" and how I feel about religion.
This video pretty much sums up my "faith" and how I feel about religion.
You clearly stated that they are not up for debate....that is clearly not the case as that would be unscientific. An error in your wording perhaps?
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Soldato
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Fair enough, do you not get my meaning?
Indeed, however the current debate is really about a philosophical discussion on relative beliefs regarding the concepts of Heaven and Hell, not really a rehash of Creationism v Evolution (we have enough threads on that already) or about the political influence religion has on the world in general (we have enough threads on that also).
I think the thread should be steered back onto the Heaven and Hell topic as stated by the absent OP....