My Novel.

Not being patronizing at all, but it's great that you're taking this on. Keep at it and don't get discouraged!

My advice would be to digest as many classic books (in your area of interest) as you can. A creative writing course (as mentioned above) is also a great idea.

Thanks for your tips, i will keep them in mind.

Right from the start we're bombarded with a list of facts, most of them probably unnecessary unless the exact time and date are pertinent to the rest of the story in some way. I want to be introduced to these things subtley not presented them as a checklist. He had a 45 minute journey home, right? That's important because it shows not only that he has a tiring drive after a long day of work, but that he probably works in the city and lives in the suburbs. OK, maybe you didn't have to state exactly how long it took but anyway... Why not work into that a couple of Southern Californian landmarks he passes rather than stating outright it's Southern California? But don't do that, it was just an example. What I mean is, let the reader work things out.

On the flipside, there are things that need to be said. You can't just put 'It was a fairly large house, the kind you would expect a successful business owner to have.' I can't imagine a 'fairly large house' because it's all relative, and I can't even begin to tell you how frustrating the latter part of that sentence is because you just expect me to know what you're talking about.

You need to strike a balance between these things. Add what's needed and take out what isn't.

I don't have time to address any other points right now, but there's lots, including whether or not you already have ideas for a beginning, middle and end, any real knowledge of the subject matter, or if the story presents anything original for the reader.

I have not done anything like brainstorm my story to work out an ending or decide characters names, what i have written down here is what just flowed out from my head. i knew it wasn't perfect and it is my first ever attempt to write anything like this before so i asked for feedback good and negative to help me, i would have gone mental if i written a full book and people told me all this, i am glad i am getting these tips early so i know to try not make the mistakes.

Very start-stop.

It reads more like a script than a book

It's weird that you mention that because i know it sounds strange but the story was in my head like i was watching a movie i created and i just written it down as i was watching it so to speak. Maybe that's why it has a rushed feeling as with a movie you see the surrounding where if i write it i have to describe a lot more.
 
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It does come across in the way that you write that you obviously haven't read many books yourself. Sit down and get reading and you'll quickly notice how professionals structure and describe what they're writing about. Whilst doing this you can also get a note book and jot down every idea (story arcs, characters,etc) and the use these to develop your story.
 
It does come across in the way that you write that you obviously haven't read many books yourself. Sit down and get reading and you'll quickly notice how professionals structure and describe what they're writing about. Whilst doing this you can also get a note book and jot down every idea (story arcs, characters,etc) and the use these to develop your story.

I currently have the Splinter cell books because i love the games, but when i read them i get lost, it may be my slow brain or something but i could be reading a part where he is escaping some people chasing him and i will have the image in my head as i am reading but then the story quickly changes to something else like the next day him having a coffee watching people. quickly it just messes up with the imagination.

I also know what people mean about seperate lines for charecters speech as in the SC books it is like
"where you going?"
"to follow a hooker"
"well get my money back off her when you see her"

Those werent taken from the book lol it was an example.
 
From what you've written I'd recommend reading Robert Ludlum's Bourne Trilogy (wouldn't bother with the follow ups by the other guy) and then go from there. You definitely need to do some reading though as has been mentioned more than once *flogs dead horse*

What you said about the Splinter Cell books is pretty much a trick employed by most authors, they end a chapter with a 'cliffhanger' and then the next chapter could be about someone and something totally different - it keeps people reading. This (spy / special agent) isn't my favourite genre of books to be honest but I did just read a book called Patient Zero by Jonathon Maberry which mixes zombies with special forces - kind of thing - anyway, it's a great read.
 
From what you've written I'd recommend reading Robert Ludlum's Bourne Trilogy (wouldn't bother with the follow ups by the other guy) and then go from there. You definitely need to do some reading though as has been mentioned more than once *flogs dead horse*

What you said about the Splinter Cell books is pretty much a trick employed by most authors, they end a chapter with a 'cliffhanger' and then the next chapter could be about someone and something totally different - it keeps people reading. This (spy / special agent) isn't my favourite genre of books to be honest but I did just read a book called Patient Zero by Jonathon Maberry which mixes zombies with special forces - kind of thing - anyway, it's a great read.

Thanks simi i will have a look at the Bourne trilogy. that Patient zero sound good too. cheers.
 
Most importantly, you're DOING it. That's important. Keep at it.

Redtop, if you keep just one single piece of advice from this thread it should be the above quote from Woody.


Keep writing - the more you tap away at those keys, the better your writing will become. It might take years, but you will get there. Do you have the entire plot mapped out? Or are you writing it as you go along?
 
Thanks simi i will have a look at the Bourne trilogy. that Patient zero sound good too. cheers.

Do you mind me tinkering with your first paragrpah to show other ways of wording things to get your points across in a more "story" sort of way?

I won't redesign the wheel or spend hours on it just a quick 10mins or so (so don't expect a new Shakespeare manuscript :D) only if you don't mind of course, I wouldn't touch someones work without asking! :)
 
Do you mind me tinkering with your first paragrpah to show other ways of wording things to get your points across in a more "story" sort of way?

I won't redesign the wheel or spend hours on it just a quick 10mins or so (so don't expect a new Shakespeare manuscript :D) only if you don't mind of course, I wouldn't touch someones work without asking! :)

I almost asked the same question as well :p
Just not sure if I'd have the time this weekend and I also felt like it might be a bit cheeky (not saying you're being cheeky, it's just how I felt). It could be a great help to him though if someone did some strong editing to show some more (and simpler) descriptives and maybe even help us to give a crap about the guy being killed.
I personally would have had him coming into the drive and seeing the lights out him thinking about how that bitch of a wife is out again, probably having an affair etc. I would also have had something wrong with the garage door that he'd been planning to fix for months. It's not my story though :p
 
I almost asked the same question as well :p
Just not sure if I'd have the time this weekend and I also felt like it might be a bit cheeky (not saying you're being cheeky, it's just how I felt). It could be a great help to him though if someone did some strong editing to show some more (and simpler) descriptives and maybe even help us to give a crap about the guy being killed.
I personally would have had him coming into the drive and seeing the lights out him thinking about how that bitch of a wife is out again, probably having an affair etc. I would also have had something wrong with the garage door that he'd been planning to fix for months. It's not my story though :p

To be fair I have edited the first paragraph showing better use of description, filling out the story so it all relates a little more. Nothing comprehensive as it only took me fifteen minutes and I would have written a lot more just for the first paragraph alone but it's just to be helpful. Someone did the same for me when I first started off writing and I found it really helpful. (saying all that everyone may think what I have written to be complete tosh :D:D:D)

But I wont post it unless the OP gives me the ok, its his work and I would be ****** off if someone started changing my own work without my permission.
 
Redtop, if you keep just one single piece of advice from this thread it should be the above quote from Woody.


Keep writing - the more you tap away at those keys, the better your writing will become. It might take years, but you will get there. Do you have the entire plot mapped out? Or are you writing it as you go along?

Forde! I know we've only chatted briefly in regards to screenwriting but I seem to recall you were writing a lot? Either way, I just noticed you blog. I may have to blogroll that.

OP: far be it for me to talk about technique, but you said earlier that you just started writing and it poured out. If you're still on a roll, keep doing that. There's a few different schools of thought regarding if you should have your stuff looked at before it's finished, or if one should have chapters looked at you go along. Either way, if you have that energy to just go for it (like me) I'd stop for no man.

Keep it at. Feedback is great, but don't let it deter you. Read and write until you're exhausted. Then keep going. ;)
 
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Forde! I know we've only chatted briefly in regards to screenwriting but I seem to recall you were writing a lot? Either way, I just noticed you blog. I may have to blogroll that.

Hiya mate! I write whenever I get five minutes of peace and quiet. I have an ebook out now on Amazon, too. Just trying to figure out how to market it. How's Daily Dischord going?

(Sorry to go off-topic!)
 
Hiya mate! I write whenever I get five minutes of peace and quiet. I have an ebook out now on Amazon, too. Just trying to figure out how to market it. How's Daily Dischord going?

(Sorry to go off-topic!)

Good reviews as well!

Congrats mate! I hope to get something published one day :( I can just never find the time with having a busy job, a partner and now a 6 month old. I am a lot more into than I used to be though and I am about 1/4 complete which I am relatively happy with.
 
Do you mind me tinkering with your first paragrpah to show other ways of wording things to get your points across in a more "story" sort of way?

I won't redesign the wheel or spend hours on it just a quick 10mins or so (so don't expect a new Shakespeare manuscript :D) only if you don't mind of course, I wouldn't touch someones work without asking! :)

Go ahead i don't mind, i am looking forward to an example of how it should have been done.
 
Hiya mate! I write whenever I get five minutes of peace and quiet. I have an ebook out now on Amazon, too. Just trying to figure out how to market it. How's Daily Dischord going?

(Sorry to go off-topic!)

I'll check it out when BT finally decide to give me internets at home.

Daily Dischord is going ok. We've decided to change the format of it, focusing more on features and binning news, all of which is detailed here (cheap plug).

I'm thinking of publishing a ebook of poetry on Amazon over the coming months. How are you finding using it for publishing and the like?

I'll add you on my blogroll thingy.
 
Go ahead i don't mind, i am looking forward to an example of how it should have been done.

Please don't take this as gospel, I knocked it up in 10mins and made up a few details about a possible backstory for the guy just to show how you can flesh things out and make it a bit more of a story rather than a factual list. Probably not the details you wanted (made up the road and locations as well) but as I say its just a little example :)

Chapter 1.
Introduction of a professional

It was October 3rd 2014 11:12pm in southern California, Mr James T Darwin had just finished work. It was a long 14 hours at the office and he was so exhausted he just wanted to go home. Long telephone calls to business partners, endless meetings with clients and such. He had felt a slight headache appearing and couldn't wait to go home and be at peace.

“James shouldn't you be gone?”
James Darwin looked up tiredly to see a friendly colleague smiling over him, he had no idea who it was and he didn't particularly care at this time of the day. After a fourteen hour shift even conversation seemed like too much effort.
“I should have been gone four hours ago but you know how it is. Business partners, meetings, clients and all the rest. Its been one of those days.”
“I know how you feel, get yourself away I'll cover if anything comes up.”
“Thanks...”
“Bill, I only started today.”
“Thanks Bill.” James replied getting up he shook the mans hand and tried to commit his face to memory so he knew who to look for for a favour next time he needed one but after fourteen hours he knew he would have forgotten by the time he reached the office door.
“No worries James. See you."
“See you.”

His 45minute journey home was calm, he listened to the local news on the radio and occasionally sung along to a few tunes that were played.

James drove down freeway 106 his mind distant as the Californian cost slid by on his left, the waves lapped up on the beach catching the last rays of the days sunlight in a beautiful display if only he was of a mind to appreciate it. He was annoyed at how late he had left it to leave the office and a quick quarter hour journey had been turned into a three quarter of an hour trek through the tail end of rush hour traffic. He tried to relax and let his mind drift as he listened to the local news, Lakers winning again he was happy to note, and he occasionally sung along to the odd song that caught his fancy.

Upon entering his driveway as always the lights were off, because Mr Darwin was so into his work he felt he had no time for a family. the sensor light on his driveway shon brightly at his presence. It was a fairly large house, the kind you would expect a successful business owner to have. He parked his car in the garage and pressed the button on his remote to close the garage doors. He dragged his tired body out of his car and proceeded to the front door.

James pulled off the freeway and thankfully did not have too long a journey through the suburban streets to his own as he could feel tiredness creeping into his brain. Pulling into the street it was suburban calm as always, the few kids in the street scampered out the way giving him a wave that he was too lazy, or tired, to return. Houses shone with lights in the early evening and he even caught the whiff of a barbecue through the open car window as he drove down the street letting him know at least everyone else was enjoying their evening.
He swung onto the darkened driveway of his own home, no family waiting for him which made him the odd one out in the area, no dinner on the table and certainly no welcoming kiss on the doorstep. The driveway sensor picked up the movement and lit up his house as the car approached. His house was one of the few prides he had in his life as he knew he was doing very well for his age and where he was at in his career. It was a large four bedroomed detached house with, painted white with an peaked black roof that was in contrast to the regimental brick houses of the rest of the street. The pool in the backyard and the double garage were also unusual for the street showing his wealth off to those, if he was honest, did not really care about it.
He pulled into the garage and dragged himself from the car only taking time to grab his briefcase and jacket before hitting the remote close on the way out, stifling a yawn as he did so.

As he opened his front door he noticed some mail on the floor, so he picked it up and took it to the kitchen while muttering "Nothing but bills, bills and more bills". As Mr Darwin opened the fridge for an alcoholic beverage he felt a weird feeling that he was being watched. the kind of feeling of being stared at from behind that the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. He quickly shook of the feeling and put it down to him being tired, or the stressful long days of work were getting to him.

He opened the front door, noticing a few letters he picked them up and rifled through them as he walked through to the kitchen.
“Bill, bill, bill... another wonderful day.” He signed and dropped them onto the kitchen table along with briefcase and jacket. “Tidy them up later.” He muttered under his breath to himself and grabbed a beer out of the fridge.
Not knowing why James looked over his shoulder, he glanced around the dimly lit kitchen illuminated by only the fridge light feeling although someone were watching him. Beer in hand he flicked on the light beside him to get a clearer view and unsurprisingly there was nothing there, no robber, murderer, mugger or rapist in waiting.
He chuckled to himself and and popped the bottle of beer open casually chucking the bottle top into the bin and strolled through into the lounge, he was working too long these days and it was getting to him he knew that and knew he should take a holiday but there was always tomorrow for that.





As I say they are just some examples of how you can flesh out a story and give it a bit more life. It gives characterisation and locations that people can visualise and let them get more involved in things. Personally I would flesh it out a lot more than that and make it even more in depth (but I love writing characters) but it just gives a little indication. Hope it is of some help and doesn't get blitzed by everyone else too much :D
 
Please don't take this as gospel, I knocked it up in 10mins and made up a few details about a possible backstory for the guy just to show how you can flesh things out and make it a bit more of a story rather than a factual list. Probably not the details you wanted (made up the road and locations as well) but as I say its just a little example :)



“James shouldn't you be gone?”
James Darwin looked up tiredly to see a friendly colleague smiling over him, he had no idea who it was and he didn't particularly care at this time of the day. After a fourteen hour shift even conversation seemed like too much effort.
“I should have been gone four hours ago but you know how it is. Business partners, meetings, clients and all the rest. Its been one of those days.”
“I know how you feel, get yourself away I'll cover if anything comes up.”
“Thanks...”
“Bill, I only started today.”
“Thanks Bill.” James replied getting up he shook the mans hand and tried to commit his face to memory so he knew who to look for for a favour next time he needed one but after fourteen hours he knew he would have forgotten by the time he reached the office door.
“No worries James. See you."
“See you.”



James drove down freeway 106 his mind distant as the Californian cost slid by on his left, the waves lapped up on the beach catching the last rays of the days sunlight in a beautiful display if only he was of a mind to appreciate it. He was annoyed at how late he had left it to leave the office and a quick quarter hour journey had been turned into a three quarter of an hour trek through the tail end of rush hour traffic. He tried to relax and let his mind drift as he listened to the local news, Lakers winning again he was happy to note, and he occasionally sung along to the odd song that caught his fancy.



James pulled off the freeway and thankfully did not have too long a journey through the suburban streets to his own as he could feel tiredness creeping into his brain. Pulling into the street it was suburban calm as always, the few kids in the street scampered out the way giving him a wave that he was too lazy, or tired, to return. Houses shone with lights in the early evening and he even caught the whiff of a barbecue through the open car window as he drove down the street letting him know at least everyone else was enjoying their evening.
He swung onto the darkened driveway of his own home, no family waiting for him which made him the odd one out in the area, no dinner on the table and certainly no welcoming kiss on the doorstep. The driveway sensor picked up the movement and lit up his house as the car approached. His house was one of the few prides he had in his life as he knew he was doing very well for his age and where he was at in his career. It was a large four bedroomed detached house with, painted white with an peaked black roof that was in contrast to the regimental brick houses of the rest of the street. The pool in the backyard and the double garage were also unusual for the street showing his wealth off to those, if he was honest, did not really care about it.
He pulled into the garage and dragged himself from the car only taking time to grab his briefcase and jacket before hitting the remote close on the way out, stifling a yawn as he did so.



He opened the front door, noticing a few letters he picked them up and rifled through them as he walked through to the kitchen.
“Bill, bill, bill... another wonderful day.” He signed and dropped them onto the kitchen table along with briefcase and jacket. “Tidy them up later.” He muttered under his breath to himself and grabbed a beer out of the fridge.
Not knowing why James looked over his shoulder, he glanced around the dimly lit kitchen illuminated by only the fridge light feeling although someone were watching him. Beer in hand he flicked on the light beside him to get a clearer view and unsurprisingly there was nothing there, no robber, murderer, mugger or rapist in waiting.
He chuckled to himself and and popped the bottle of beer open casually chucking the bottle top into the bin and strolled through into the lounge, he was working too long these days and it was getting to him he knew that and knew he should take a holiday but there was always tomorrow for that.





As I say they are just some examples of how you can flesh out a story and give it a bit more life. It gives characterisation and locations that people can visualise and let them get more involved in things. Personally I would flesh it out a lot more than that and make it even more in depth (but I love writing characters) but it just gives a little indication. Hope it is of some help and doesn't get blitzed by everyone else too much :D

That is excellent, i honestly had no idea to be that thorough with what is happening. what i written down i thought you got the picture but with your version you get the feeling you know how he feels etc. Nice work man are you a professional writer?.
 
That is excellent, i honestly had no idea to be that thorough with what is happening. what i written down i thought you got the picture but with your version you get the feeling you know how he feels etc. Nice work man are you a professional writer?.

Thanks :) I wish I was professional :D

I have been writing for years though, and I have finally settled on a project and I am around 1/4 through. Got half written (about 450 pages) first draft that I'm tidying up and redrafting that now so I can set it to one side and got the second half wrote all bare bones that I need to flesh out.

To be honest though I rarely, if ever, get enough time to write so I'm aiming for the 450 redraft by mid this year and in an ideal world first draft of the rest by mid next year. Whether that happens though :p

You look like you have a good idea mate so I would just say read around a lot more, keep writing the ideas down then keep on redrafting and you will get there. The key thing is having an idea, which you have, without that you can get nowhere. :)
 
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