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shadowscotland · 23 Jan 2012 at 13:03

Just been in conversation with EK regarding a corroded EK supreme HF
And because it was a crimbo 2010 gift I can't RMA it.

Offical Ek product in full retail packing - check
EK product less that 24 months old - check
(I have one of the first oval top ones just over a year ago)
Piece of paper that says this - missing

I checked my bank and PP statments and it must be the only part of my PC I didn't buy myself.
Just typical it's goes wrong.

You'd think that they could make an exception....

After a clean with water an a brush - close ups of the top and bottom

Dear ek Support
I recently removed my ek Supreme from my loop to replace my stock plexi top with an acetal one (oval shape purchased for the ek shop)
Only to find two areas of corrision under the injection plate (see images below and attached)

It has been in my loop since 11th Feb 2011 - as shown by my build log on OcUK - [project] Black & Blue - post 48 ownwards
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18162334
Following the replacement of a MSI board with the faulty intel chip.
Distilled water with a silver kill coil was my coolant

This was given to me as a Christmas present in 2010. So I have no invoice or specific date of purchase.
I still have the full retail packaging and all parts, as well as the replacement top.
EAN no. 3 830046 990204

I request a RMA replacement - but can't fill in the first questions of the standard form.
Please advise on what I/you need to do next, so I can receive a replacement

Kind regards
Stephen Farrell

STA76419.jpg

And after cleaning with water and a toothbrush

coppertop.jpg
copperbot.jpg

Dear customer,

thank you for contacting us.

As much as we would like to help we cannot process any RMA without copy of receipt.
Please provide one. Retailer should be able to send new copy upon demand.

Thank you for understanding.

Best regards, Gregor

Thank you for your reply Gregor
I can completely understand the companies default standpoint.
If I brought it myself I could contact OcUK or any other reseller and get an copy invoice.
But I didn't and the person that did is unable to do so, because she has passed away.

If you will only deal with the actual buyer, I am complete stuffed, what ever I say, post, advertise or blog will make no differance.
If however you are making exceptions on a case by case basis...

My case on why the invoice isn't needed (but I accept would have been helpful) are as follows

Firstly - It's EK retail boxed product! - your the only place that makes them.
I don't want money - I just want a working, fit for purpose replacement - ideally the less expensive copper/Acetal one.

Secondly - the product was launched less that 2 years ago - so MUST be in the 24month RMA period
Date of purchase although helpful in finding which batches were defective doesn't affect the validity of an RMA imho
The EAN number may help, but the EK supreme HF (oval top) was not available for long, before being updated (square top)

Thirdly - the product is over a year old so the e-tailer shouldn't be involved in anyway.

I look forward to your responce.
Kind regards
Stephen Farrell

Dear customer,

the amendment on corrosion issue was on our own initiative.
Generally speaking, people have been running mixed metal loops for some time now without proper treatment and continue to do so despite warnings.
We continue to make public awarness of possible problem backed up with scientificly proved tests.

However we stand firm with our demands for RMA and its processing.
When prerequisitives are a match we process RMA.

Thank you for understanding.

Best regards, Gregor

I understand - just don't think it's right as exceptions can always be made.
+1 unhappy customer

the amendment on corrosion issue was on our own initiative
That makes me laugh - public pressure and massive PR damage due to cost savings more like.

What can I say - ask for money and only buy your own hardware

Anyone know a good way to remove nickel from a block?

panyan · 23 Jan 2012 at 13:18

thats poor show from EK

zoomee · 23 Jan 2012 at 13:25

standard company operating procedures mate - no reciept - no can do unfortunately

jonnylaris · 23 Jan 2012 at 13:29

Surely you can work out who bought it for you for christmas and ask them for a bank statement?

Biffa · 23 Jan 2012 at 13:48

As he said the person who bought it for him has passed away.

shadowscotland · 23 Jan 2012 at 14:49

Just really bad luck on my part.
But they could be more understanding, it's not as if the bad plateing was my fault
Anyone want to lend me an invoice?

Monkeyspaz5000 · 23 Jan 2012 at 15:37

Surely they could just replace the thing! Bad customer service regardless of return policy.

Biffa · 24 Jan 2012 at 09:47

shadowscotland said:
Just really bad luck on my part.
But they could be more understanding, it's not as if the bad plateing was my fault
Anyone want to lend me an invoice?

As you know mine are acetal on the SR-2, so I haven't even dared look, mind you the mobo block is plexi and thats showing nasty corrossion, but they don't have an EN version available

Mayhems · 24 Jan 2012 at 10:04

TBH i dont think EK have in any way been out of order. RMA's cost money. They dont have to provide you with a 2 year warranty but they do as standard this is all ready good of them to do that. If you dont have a receipt its not there fault but you own for not asking for it when you got the product even if it was a present. Who is to say (and not having a go) you are not a second hand owner of the product.

There are many people out there ready to jump on the bandwagon and send in second hand items to manufacture and expect that the manufacture will just pass it over for free. Who pays for all these RMA's at the end of the day, well its you the customer as the price goes up to cover the extended costs involved.

So i think EK have done what is right and your self is actually just annoyed that you didn't get a RMA when you should have had the receipt.

sorry if this is a little harsh sounding but its the truth after all.

Lunawolfy · 24 Jan 2012 at 10:14

mlwood37 said:
TBH i dont think EK have in any way been out of order. RMA's cost money. They dont have to provide you with a 2 year warranty but they do as standard this is all ready good of them to do that. If you dont have a receipt its not there fault but you own for not asking for it when you got the product even if it was a present. Who is to say (and not having a go) you are not a second hand owner of the product.

There are many people out there ready to jump on the bandwagon and send in second hand items to manufacture and expect that the manufacture will just pass it over for free. Who pays for all these RMA's at the end of the day, well its you the customer as the price goes up to cover the extended costs involved.

So i think EK have done what is right and your self is actually just annoyed that you didn't get a RMA when you should have had the receipt.

sorry if this is a little harsh sounding but its the truth after all.

Sadly gotta agree with this, for all they know you stole it from the back of a truck or something.

RMA's can only be validated when you prove you own said item.

shadowscotland · 24 Jan 2012 at 10:57

As I said in my communications with EK I understand their point.
No proof of purchase - No RMA is normal company policy.
And I agree RMA's cost money - But it's due to cost cutting that the RMA's are happening.

Now don't get me wrong - all companies should try and reduced cost to increase profit margins.
A company is there to make money, full stop.
RMA's are not there for good company pr - there are set in law to protect the buyer.

For many months as more and more blocks started to corrode the current 2 year RMA wasn't inplace.
And very harsh words were being used to say well respected members of the community were making it up or using acidic coolants on purpose.

The two year RMA policy is less than the law relating to latent defects.
Which allows for 7 years.
And it only happened due to a PR nightmare and massive drop in respect for EK.
Which in some ways has been restored by the new EN mark.

In theory all gifts are secondhand! - but at lease e-tailers keep online records so we don't need a draw of receipts a year old for the present we give.
In my comm's with ek I showed my build log - a public account of my ownership of the block on 7 Feb 2011.

If I purchased this block myself the RMA would just happen without issue.
But the original buyer can't handle the RMA so I'm left with a paperweight.

I've never said ek were out of order - just that they could make an exception.

Mayhems · 24 Jan 2012 at 11:08

I do sympathise with you how ever even if there PR nightmare didn't happen it still set in stone and there RMA need receipt and after there PR nightmare how much money did you think EK lost so there going to pull there belts in even further.

And i would love any one to try and cover there ass in court with a water cooled pc to back any type of warranty. You built the pc, you added the liquid you prove you followed there explicit instruction to make sure it didn't corrode. Just not going to happen.

Also plated products are going to ware in a water cooling system any way its just a matter of time no matter how bad or how good a plated product it is inevitable.

shadowscotland · 24 Jan 2012 at 11:18

edit: to put this in context with exceptional customer service.
One of the ladies at the office went in to GAP with a pair of old GAP trousers (3 years old) looking to sourse a button.
They gave her a new pair, no charge.

A doctor friend of mine picked a shirt of the rail at PINK
As she was paying the man behind the counter noticed one of the buttons was lose.
He got out a sowing kit and fixed it there and then, appoliging for the error.
While a fellow worker cleared the rail to check every other shirt at the back of the shop.

EK produces are not budget disposables - they are marketed as high grade enthusiast hardware.
It would have been nice if the service matched the product, but in my case it didn't.

shadowscotland · 24 Jan 2012 at 11:27

mlwood37 said:
Also plated products are going to ware in a water cooling system any way its just a matter of time no matter how bad or how good a plated product it is inevitable.

True - but the timescale is the issue.
Car tires ware, as do clothes, carpets, roads.
If it's life span was only 5-10% of a competitors product you'd know it was badly made or broken.

Sir SpankalotUK · 24 Jan 2012 at 11:39

Regardless of the receipt business (which I don't personally agree with), its clearly an EK block that's gone bad, in my business it would have been replaced and we certainly wouldn't have asked for a receipt to prove purchase.

And this is bad PR, because word of mouth travels, like here. I have duly noted EK poor customer service, hiding behind corporate policy is something you expect of large corporates, not a company that needs to work closely with it's user base.

Bubo · 24 Jan 2012 at 13:34

That line of grey "gunk" running across the middle of the block, perpenciular to the grooves, i.e. where the jet plate slits are, was that definately metalic plating residue?

My opinion on this nickel plating issue has always been "so what if it corrodes, it is only exposing copper which is not going to affect the performance of the block, and you can't see it anyway if the block top is not plexi". I personally always assumed that if the plating did go that it would either "dissolve" or be so small that it says suspended in the fluid. *BUT* if your experience is that that grey stuff is solely made of nickel bits then it does put a different complexion on things, as it appears the bits are big enough to form a blockage.

So could you tell if it was just nickel or something else mixed in with it, or some other gunk in the system?

shadowscotland · 24 Jan 2012 at 14:21

The gray line must have at lease 20% gunk in it - metal doesn't just clump together in my limited experance - AS5 is a 88% metal paste, the rest is oils and binders.
This may be dead algee/bacteria, plasticizer, mineral salts

Was using de ionised and a silver coil - so a very mild acid getting stronger over time

It didn't dissolve - makes a very nice silver speck cloud coolant
simular in look mayhems Aurora - but without any of the benifits.
With my D5 at setting 1 (where it normally is) you see nothing

click on the image for a video with the D5 running at setting 5

Closed my ticket with ek on this as I spent more money (in wasted time) than just buying a new block.
Will use my XSPC edge untill a new block arrives.

Monkeyspaz5000 · 24 Jan 2012 at 14:42

Sir SpankalotUK said:
Regardless of the receipt business (which I don't personally agree with), its clearly an EK block that's gone bad, in my business it would have been replaced and we certainly wouldn't have asked for a receipt to prove purchase.

And this is bad PR, because word of mouth travels, like here. I have duly noted EK poor customer service, hiding behind corporate policy is something you expect of large corporates, not a company that needs to work closely with it's user base.

agreed 100%

panyan · 24 Jan 2012 at 14:47

from this and the other thread below this, i can tell you that i am avoiding EK nickel stuff!

Biffa · 24 Jan 2012 at 15:03

Luckily they still do copper blocks, I'd happily take advantage of the RMA process for my faulty EK block however they don't make a non-faulty version of the product I need to replace.