Network Rail admits safety breaches over girls' deaths

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-16786373

I think I have a small problem with this one.

This is the pertinent part for me:

Olivia and Charlotte were killed on 3 December 2005. The crossing was fitted with warning lights and yodel alarms.

A London to Cambridge train passed over the crossing with the red lights and yodel sounding - a warning for foot passengers not to cross.


After the train passed, the lights remained on and the alarms continued to sound as another train, travelling from Birmingham to Stansted Airport, in Essex, was going to pass through the station.

The girls, who were about to catch another train for a Christmas shopping trip to Cambridge, opened the unlocked wicket gates and walked on to the crossing. They were both struck by the Stansted train and killed.

I used to cross this railway at elsenham quite often as a kid. Iirc there were lights and sirens back then too, also an unlocked wicket gate. There was a bloke at the station who's job it was to open the road gates to allow vehicles to resume crossing the tracks.
If you weren't a fool, why would you cross a level crossing when the lights and sirens were on?
As far as I can see, the two girls were stupid and crossed the line whilst the lights and sirens were still on (to announce another train).

They crossed when a train was due to pass through the station, against the clearly audible and visible warning signs to alert pedestrians to the approach of a train.

13 & 14 is not too young to know the danger of level crossings. Nor is it too young to know what the warnings mean.

The only time I crossed that line was when the lights and sirens had stopped.
I could believe that network rail were at fault had the girls crossed when there were no lights and sirens and then hit by a train; this would infer some fault with the signalling equipment. Clearly then a danger to the public by not giving reliable notification of the danger of an approaching train.
That was not the case, however.

Is this H&S gone mad? Are the rail operators responsible? Are the parents of the two girls right to be glad that network rail have admitted liability, thereby confirming their lies and actions to 'cover up' certain paperwork relating to proposals to the crossing site? Or are the parents just unable to admit their children were wrong to cross when they did, and wanting to blame anyone but themselves over a dreadful accident that could have been prevented by a little parental common sense?

The outcome of the decisions made by the two girls was tragic and horrible. But I don't think legislating against stupidity, even youthful stupidity, is going to bring them back, nor will such measures protect anyone else idiotic enough to cross a live level crossing. What will be next? Automatically locked gates... but what happens when the next idiot decides to climb over, against all the prohibitive warnings, and is killed? 20ft high chain-link fences? And for how far down the line from the crossing?

Sadly I don't think there will be any positive outcome to any of this. What this shows (if anything) is that young people are not learning the basic necessity of taking responsibility for your own actions and safety. Defying clear warnings not to cross is entirely their fault. That might be painful for their parents, but it is true.

I'll also add that it was not unusual for more than one train to pass the station in quick succession with the crossing remaining closed to traffic and pedestrians during the gap between trains passing. Anyone who crossed that line regularly would know that. I did. I can only think those two girls knew this too, but chose to ignore the dangers. That decision killed them.
 
I also dont understand this either. There must be a reason why Network Rail have been held criminally responsible but I just cannot see it. The lights were flashing, the siren was sounding.. yet they chose to ignore both of these warnings and walk out in front of a train?

In most countries you don't even get these warnings at foot crossings. It was already above and beyond the world-norm in terms of safety measures.
 
exactly what I was thinking. Its just a case of the blame game, parents want to hold someone accountable.

Then again, network rail have pleaded guilty......
 
I never believed that they were the architects of their own terrible end. It has taken six years to reveal the truth of what happened

:confused:

Are we missing crucial information or something?

I notice they are not spending more sums of money on fitting automatically locking gates. We don't have this level of protective equipment when crossing arguably more dangerous roads...
 
The whole case seems based on the fact that Network rail were planning to change the gates to auto lock ones.

Even so, you could not 100% say they would have lived, they could have jumped over them...
 
Well I think its fair to say they probably wouldn't have been killed if the gates locked as I doubt they would have climbed over them but I'm still not sure why this is anyone elses fault.

If there was a barrier on every pedestrian crossing that lifted when the lights were right for cars we'd save several lives a year as well... doesn't mean it should happen. We will never live in a zero risk environment.
 
This is a classic example of Health and Safety gone mad. Network rail have effectively been forced to admit liability for the bad choices of the girls for ignoring the warning signs.

It should not have required a locked gate to prevent this, all it required was for the two girls not to be idiots.
 
[TW]Fox;21163163 said:
Well I think its fair to say they probably wouldn't have been killed if the gates locked as I doubt they would have climbed over them but I'm still not sure why this is anyone elses fault.

If there was a barrier on every pedestrian crossing that lifted when the lights were right for cars we'd save several lives a year as well... doesn't mean it should happen. We will never live in a zero risk environment.

True

I think the first ruling was fine, it was an accident. To fully place blame on network rail is wrong, as I negates the decisions made by those girls to ignore the siren and red light and cross.
 
Maybe they were just suicidal?

Crazy though that anyone can be held responsible for it apart from the girls themselves. I know it's not nice to speak ill of the dead, but (unless we're missing some fairly hefty chunk of information), they died by their own stupidity in ignoring the already more than satisfactory safety measures in place.
 
I think perhaps the parents were unimpressed (and perhaps wrongly, but understandably so in their grief) with the following statement from network rail:
In the aftermath of the accident, Network Rail claimed the girls had acted recklessly and that somehow their youthful exuberance led directly to their deaths
Er, yeah? Unless there's some crucial evidence missing from this case, that's probably about it in a nutshell. Maybe not very tactful, but almost certainly true. They could have stated in public what I've just said.... That the girls were just stupid to cross when they did.
But I guess 'youthful exuberance' is better than 'stupidity' as a public statement concerning two accidental deaths. So maybe they were being tactful? I doubt the parents would have seen it like that; there's some things that are too hard to accept on top of everything else, that someone must be to blame. :confused:
 
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I don't see how you can get hit by a train full stop whether the crossing has lights/sirens or not. If it's going fast enough to be out of sight you'll likely hear it and otherwise you would see it if you aren't blind.
 
I saw this earlier and was equally confused. They ignored the signals and crossed the rails. Do they want Network Rail to hold their hands every time someone crosses the tracks too?
 
I don't see how you can get hit by a train full stop whether the crossing has lights/sirens or not. If it's going fast enough to be out of sight you'll likely hear it and otherwise you would see it if you aren't blind.

I presume they didn't hear it because another train had just passed, and the one that hit them was doing about 70mph.
 
[TW]Fox;21163093 said:
I also dont understand this either. There must be a reason why Network Rail have been held criminally responsible but I just cannot see it. The lights were flashing, the siren was sounding.. yet they chose to ignore both of these warnings and walk out in front of a train?

In most countries you don't even get these warnings at foot crossings. It was already above and beyond the world-norm in terms of safety measures.

I suppose the assumption was that the warning lights/sound applied to the train that had just passed, and not that there was another train operating on the line as well. I imagine the noise of the second train was masked by the sound of the first one.
 
One of the big differences with railway vs things like roads. Is railway is automatically liable and has to prove innocence. They have to prove they did everything they could to prevent people getting on to the infrastructure.
 
I saw this earlier and was equally confused. They ignored the signals and crossed the rails. Do they want Network Rail to hold their hands every time someone crosses the tracks too?

We'll end up with some bonkers scenario where all stations must have millions spent on enormous bridges* no matter how infrequently used or small they are.

Because money grows on trees.

* Which will need to have lifts, obviously.
 
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Youd be surprised by how quickly a fast moving train approaches you , 100mph is 44m/s, Id say that the average platform is 100-150 metres so it can travel the length of a station in 3 seconds, and your certainly not going to here it before it gets quite close to you!

I dunno what type of train it was, so if it was a boggo standard one doing 30-40mph then yeah , but still very stupid of them and only have themselves to blame. Parents teach kids not to run over pedestrian crossings when the red man shows so how can it be any different to teaching a kid not to cross when lights and sirens are going off!

Bet they thought they could chance it!
 
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