Make Bradford British TV Program

Castiel · 4 Mar 2012 at 12:26

Rikki said:
These guys have a WHOLE festival based around it - and never seem to get any complaints over the term!

http://www.japfest.co.uk/

And if you applied that 'japfest' to a Japanese beauty contest?

Also, in the United States, where the word is far more unacceptable than in Europe it would be associated with bigotry far more...as I explained.

This also illustrates the difference between a word, like 'Jap' that was once acceptable and had no inherent racial slur that has over time and usage become to one extent or another a derogratory term and a word, like '****' that never had that acceptability and was from it's inception intended to be derogratory.

Craterloads · 4 Mar 2012 at 12:31

The only reason it was played down when Prince Harry called a fellow soldier his "**** friend" was to save face.

Lets just say you wont hear him saying it again, well on camera anyway. Im sure he also issued an apology if i remember correctly, anyhow dont see this can be used as justification ...

Jay794 · 4 Mar 2012 at 12:31

****-fest conjures up some weird mental images for me

Castiel · 4 Mar 2012 at 12:34

Rikki said:
I suppose that depends on your location too though as a term coined in one place with disrespect compared to being used as a contraction somewhere else with absolutely no negative intention.

It does, the example 'Jap' being a very good one, where the location decides to some extent the level of offence implied by it's use.

However, again the word '****' has no such defence...it was and still is (although there is some movement within the Pakistani youth to gain ownership of the word themselves) intended as a racial slur..it never had any other definition or context.

We have to take each word, it's etymology, derivation and context into consideration individually...it is incredibly difficult to compare and contrast different examples to justify each other, simply because the historical and contextual use is different in each case.

So just because 'Jap' may be acceptable in one context yet not another, it doesn't necessarily follow that '****' should or would be the same.

Jay794 · 4 Mar 2012 at 12:37

This is all very technical and stuff, I can't help but wonder, would there be so much racism if people weren't so sensitive? If no one was offended by these terms then wouldn't we all be better off?

Tummy · 4 Mar 2012 at 12:37

Jay794 said:
This is all very technical and stuff, I can't help but wonder, would there be so much racism if people weren't so sensitive?

Hahahaha.

You continue to amaze me.

Castiel · 4 Mar 2012 at 12:43

Jay794 said:
This is all very technical and stuff, I can't help but wonder, would there be so much racism if people weren't so sensitive? If no one was offended by these terms then wouldn't we all be better off?

The problem is the terms imply difference, and difference can, and has led to blame, which leads to discrimination, which leads to things like ethnic cleansing et al.

If people were less obsessed with their differences and more concerned with their commonalities then there would be less racism and less cause for such words and context to begin with.....thus implying a safer and more peaceful world generally.

Rikki · 4 Mar 2012 at 12:45

Castiel said:
It does, the example 'Jap' being a very good one, where the location decides to some extent the level of offence implied by it's use.

However, again the word '****' has no such defence...it was and still is (although there is some movement within the Pakistani youth to gain ownership of the word themselves) intended as a racial slur..it never had any other definition or context.

We have to take each word, it's etymology, derivation and context into consideration individually...it is incredibly difficult to compare and contrast different examples to justify each other, simply because the historical and contextual use is different in each case.

So just because 'Jap' may be acceptable in one context yet not another, it doesn't necessarily follow that '****' should or would be the same.

Goes back to my comment on location perfectly. I can only speak for the area I grew up in but saying "Im nipping to the ****'s for milk" or "Im ordering a chinky tonight" were and are commonplace and no-one cares. Its the delivery of the term that people take on face value. Now perhaps the peeps on this thread who are getting all bent out of shape about it live in places where from the offset the term has always been used only for evil. Or maybe people around Glasgow can differentiate and understand when someone is being offensive and when someone is actually being normal.

Jay794 · 4 Mar 2012 at 12:49

Tummy said:
Hahahaha.

You continue to amaze me.

well Castiel saw sense in it

Castiel said:
The problem is the terms imply difference, and difference can, and has led to blame, which leads to discrimination, which leads to things like ethnic cleansing et al.

If people were less obsessed with their differences and more concerned with their commonalities then there would be less racism and less cause for such words and context to begin with.....thus implying a safer and more peaceful world generally.

Rikki · 4 Mar 2012 at 13:15

LOL @ http://www.redbubble.com/shop/muslamic+t-shirts

Still think he sounds like he's saying Muslamic Rave Camps

Castiel · 4 Mar 2012 at 13:42

Rikki said:
Goes back to my comment on location perfectly. I can only speak for the area I grew up in but saying "Im nipping to the ****'s for milk" or "Im ordering a chinky tonight" were and are commonplace and no-one cares. Its the delivery of the term that people take on face value. Now perhaps the peeps on this thread who are getting all bent out of shape about it live in places where from the offset the term has always been used only for evil. Or maybe people around Glasgow can differentiate and understand when someone is being offensive and when someone is actually being normal.

There is a marked difference between the casual use of the word when refering to a place, such as "nipping down the chinky" and referring to the individual, such as "My neighbour is a Chinky"

Personally I make the distinction between 'I'm going down the shop for milk' which is the term I would use with 'I'm going down the '**** shop' for milk' while the reference is casual, it is still, albeit unintentional to some extent, still racist......I think is clear to most people that calling an Asian a '****' to his face is unacceptable....but it is the casual, unintended remarks such as 'having a chinky' that to some extent create an environment were others will seek to justify more insidious forms of racism and discrimination based on the acceptance of that casual reference.

I think that the basic premise shoud be to move away from using such references, even casually in the hope that it creates a better environment which fosters equality rather than division.

ps3ud0 · 4 Mar 2012 at 13:53

Tummy said:
Hahahaha.

You continue to amaze me.

Should we be glad that breathing is autonomous? It makes me wonder sometimes

Love to have a discussion of the topic at hand, but unfortunately these forums just dont attract enough quality posters to actually have a decent informed debate on it...

ps3ud0 :cool:

Castiel · 4 Mar 2012 at 14:05

ps3ud0 said:
Should we be glad that breathing is autonomous? It makes me wonder sometimes

Love to have a discussion of the topic at hand, but unfortunately these forums just dont attract enough quality posters to actually have a decent informed debate on it...

ps3ud0

Why don't you give it a shot anyway.......

ps3ud0 · 4 Mar 2012 at 14:17

The threads gone off topic, no point in rescuing it and looking at whats being discussed and past threads on similar topics, I think Ive made the right decision...

Though please carry on with your re-education, for what its worth I completely agree with you; though it makes me wonder if racism or the pure acceptance of it as normal parle is just a reflection on a persons socio-economic class or a derived function of it (education etc)...

Enjoy the worms

ps3ud0

Tummy · 4 Mar 2012 at 15:02

Castiel said:
Why don't you give it a shot anyway.......

You're asking for intelligent debate / discussion in GD? haha!

Pigs will fly first.

ps3ud0 said:
The threads gone off topic, no point in rescuing it and looking at whats being discussed and past threads on similar topics, I think Ive made the right decision...

Though please carry on with your re-education, for what its worth I completely agree with you; though it makes me wonder if racism or the pure acceptance of it as normal parle is just a reflection on a persons socio-economic class or a derived function of it (education etc)...

Enjoy the worms

ps3ud0

Oh no you didn't!

Jay794 · 4 Mar 2012 at 15:04

My boss just came into work, the place I work is being taking over by another company so he wanted to just run me through some new protocols. He basically said, in no uncertain terms "they've told us to only hire white guards" (The entire security team is white anyway)

He went on to say "I think the boss is a bit racist"

I found that really strange as, how does the colour of your skin influence your ability to do a job? especially in security, or is it that the suits think white people are more trustworthy than the other security team that work in Bradford.

Got me thinking....

jas72 · 4 Mar 2012 at 15:14

Justintime said:
Yes because everyone knows back in the day people used to go Scot and Aussie bashing, nevermind all of the graffiti etc.. saying 'Scot' or 'Aussie' go home.

Maybe not Aussie bashing but Scot bashing was quite common .....

In fact it's still nearly a daily occurance on BBC (esp. radio )

Jay794 · 4 Mar 2012 at 15:15

I'd never bash a scot or an auzzie

One's likely to bash you back (in the face) and the others likely to rob you at knife point

Castiel · 4 Mar 2012 at 15:21

Jay794 said:
My boss just came into work, the place I work is being taking over by another company so he wanted to just run me through some new protocols. He basically said, in no uncertain terms "they've told us to only hire white guards" (The entire security team is white anyway)

He went on to say "I think the boss is a bit racist"

I found that really strange as, how does the colour of your skin influence your ability to do a job? especially in security, or is it that the suits think white people are more trustworthy than the other security team that work in Bradford.

Got me thinking....

What has got me thinking is that didn't actually happen....even if a company had such a discriminatory policy it is certainly never going to be announced to the workforce......

Given that discrimination of that type in the workplace is illegal.

Tummy · 4 Mar 2012 at 15:22

Jay794 said:
My boss just came into work, the place I work is being taking over by another company so he wanted to just run me through some new protocols. He basically said, in no uncertain terms "they've told us to only hire white guards" (The entire security team is white anyway)

He went on to say "I think the boss is a bit racist"

I found that really strange as, how does the colour of your skin influence your ability to do a job? especially in security, or is it that the suits think white people are more trustworthy than the other security team that work in Bradford.

Got me thinking....

I don't believe this actually happened.