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7970 or GTX 680

seems silly to get so wound up about cards, people should and will always have their views opinions or watever but just agree to disagree when they differ.

Ive always been verging into Nvidia fan boy territory but after viewing some benchmarks and things I think I would like the 7970 for a new rig if I was buying now, for no other reason that it seems to cater better to what im looking for and perform better in the games I would play, way up your needs OP.
 
To be fair it's not a patch on ths 480slI oc, but for the price I paid it's nice, one thing I really like is the power usage, 500 Watts less, I will be adding another one today for crossfire water cooled.

:eek: Dang! very nice, am in 2 minds with the cards there's too much willy waving from what i have seen the 7970 and 680 are equally cracking cards just waiting on a few guys in the distributed computing thread to do some tests and that will swing me one way or t'other ..... if we grovel sufficiently do we get pics of your watercooled goodness? :eek::D
 
OK so I am going to be the peace maker.

Right now it seems to be ups and downs from AMD. One minute the 680 beats it in certain games, the next AMD release a new driver and the 7970 pulls ahead. I did take the time to look at those BF3 scores, BTW.

As some people have said, let's look at the cold hard facts.

The 680 is quieter. I won't say it's cooler because in some reviews I've seen it actually get hotter than the 7970. However, all reviews say it is quieter.

The 680 uses less power. Not enough to save you a significant amount of money, but it does use less power.

The 680 as of right now has better drivers. Personally I think the entire thing is so close that it comes down to drivers, and the 680 has the better ones. I've not used them, but I have used the AMD ones and they suck donkey balls.

The 680 can do clever tricks to improve framerates which is cool, it will help with games that it isn't man enough for, especially in surround.

Those are the good points. Now the bad.

It's a complete con. If you have the electronics experience I do then you can clearly understand it is a cheap card to make. It has 1/3 less the inductors that the 7970 has. Now I don't care what way you try and shake that, it's just fact.

You can come at me and say (and you would be sort of right) that the GPU core simply does not need the power stages that the 7970 core does. That is somewhat right. However, cheaper to make should = cheaper to sell. And as of right now the 680 costs more than the 7970.

The 680 has no voltage control, meaning overclocks are severely limited. However, this is quietened by the "out of the box" performance. However, it is a down side IMO.

The 680 will (sooner rather than later) become crippled by its vram. If it did not run surround? I would be far less worried about its future potential to do so. However as we know all it takes is one game and a card can be rendered useless.

So basically if you are paying for a 680 then the only thing it has going for it is the gaming performance which is very good. Now let's move onto the 7970.

The 7970 is a far more expensive card to make. The cooler is bigger (the metal part) and it has far more power components aboard than the 680. The reason for this is simple. It was designed as a high end card and not rebadged as one. It is a true high end card.

Eyefinity from my own experiences with Surround is better. Surround can be very hit and miss, and really relies on drivers. I found that I needed different drivers for each of the games I wanted to play. However, the 680 is a single card, so it may be better.


The 7970 has 3gb of vram because it was the more expensive card to make. If you look away from gaming performance the 7970 dominates the 680 in absolutely every way. Specs for example on paper are far higher and richer than the 680.

7970 when overclocked to 1125 which every card I have seen will do is either just behind the 680 or just in front.

7970 is a few quid cheaper. I've seen them for £386 or so.

Now the bad.

Drivers. They suck balls. They are awful IMO. So awful that a mate of mine bought a 7950 and sent it back the next day. He spent all night wrestling with them and just wasn't happy with it at all.

The card underperforms. IE - with a spec list as long as your arm this card should be battering the 680. On paper the 7970 absolutely obliterates it. Yet, this is not the case. 7970 is apparently AMD's Fermi. They have bolted on loads of new stuff and features yet can't quite refine it into performance at a user level.

Each driver AMD have released has improved one thing, then broken another. Until they get their act together we can't say for sure which card is the faster card. I have no doubt that the 7970 will continue to improve. The problem is AMD rushed it to market to get some sales before Nvidia knew what was happening. And this shows in a big way when it comes to the drivers. They are quite frankly bloody rotten.

So, hopefully there are both sides to the story there, without just posting a one line post to declare one the better. If that is how you feel then you are rather narrow minded, because as always it is a lot more complicated than that.
 
I have a 680 but for the OPs needs I suggest he gets a 7970 but even better 2. The 2GB VRAM on the 680 isn't good for high res multi screen gaming.

@ALXAndy: AS the 680 has 1/3 less the inductors that the 7970 has what effect does that have on the card, why is this a point to make? Please clarify I'm interested.
 
I have a 680 but for the OPs needs I suggest he gets a 7970 but even better 2. The 2GB VRAM on the 680 isn't good for high res multi screen gaming.

@ALXAndy: AS the 680 has 1/3 less the inductors that the 7970 has what effect does that on the card, why is this a point to make? Please clarify I'm interested.

I explained it mate. The 680 is a cheaper card to make. In component form it seems to have 1/3 less of everything. Ram, cooler size, components ETC.

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out then that it cost them (in component form) 1/3 less to make.

So why doesn't it cost 1/3 less to buy?

Edit. Even the power connectors. An 8 pin connector for example costs more to buy as a component than a 6 pin as quite simply it uses more plastic and more pins. Sure, mayb'e it's a few pence here and there, but it all adds up.
 
I explained it mate. The 680 is a cheaper card to make. In component form it seems to have 1/3 less of everything. Ram, cooler size, components ETC.

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out then that it cost them (in component form) 1/3 less to make.

So why doesn't it cost 1/3 less to buy?

Edit. Even the power connectors. An 8 pin connector for example costs more to buy as a component than a 6 pin as quite simply it uses more plastic and more pins. Sure, mayb'e it's a few pence here and there, but it all adds up.

But because it's cheap to make that doesn't make it a bad card. You put it being cheap to make as a negative about the card. Although nVidia are making a hefty profit on it.... in come the 670 > 680 rebadge comments lol Im glad Nvidia when for 6 pin connectors, my PSU already had the cables for them. I'd have to but some molex > 8pin cables if they made the GTX680 use 8pins

I was going to get the MSI Lightening 7970 for £500. I got a EVGA 680 over it for two main reasons: it's cheaper and nVidia have better drivers. Also I won't be gaming any higher than 1080P on one screen so have no need for the 3GB of VRAM on the 7970.
 
Thanks for all the help :)

Out of curiosity why didn't the new NVIDIA GTX 680 get more/same VRAM as its competitor?
 
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Right I actually run BF3 in Eyefinity on a single HD7970 so I think I can give some balanced opinion as to what do expect.

In all cases my results have been run on the 25/1 RC11 beta drivers. I havn't got round to testing anything newer as these work very nicely and gave a noticable boost to BF3 in Eyefinity. Additionally my HD7970 is clocked at 1125/6600 unless stated otherwise and my resolution is 3560x1920.

At a mixture of high and medium settings (only shadows and Post AA on medium) you can expect between 50 and 60fps average. In my standard benchmark run through - 5 minutes of actually playing Operation Swordbreaker - I pulled 62fps average at these settings with a minimum of 45fps. The game looks great at high settings and gameplay was perfectly "smooth".

At Ultra settings but without AA average FPS drops to around the 50 mark with minimums around 40fps. On my setup I couldn't notice a difference in playability between this and high settings so I now run on Ultra all the time.

Adding 2x AA drops the average to 38 (min to 30) and 4x drops it even further to 32fps (min 25fps). Both are playable but 4xAA is a bit borderline in places. Incidently I couldn't tell the difference between 2xAA and 4xAA so there would be no point in redecing your FS for little visual gain.

I did test online (64 player Caspian border) and didn't notice a material move in FPS from what I tested in single player. At this resolution I am pretty much GPU bound so clocking my 2500k made zero difference to FPS.

On a single HD7970 BF3 is more than playable at eyefinity resolutions.

I would imagine that a GTX680 would offer similar performance in all but the 4xAA test, assuming MSI afterburner is correct the 680 would run out of VRAM (upwards of 2.8GB measured). Of course this could be another case of BF3 merely caching all available Vram or perhaps some sort of leakage.

Outside of BF3 I understand that Eyefinity is still "better" than Surround in terms of ease of use and setup. Switching between Extended mode and spanned mode (Eyefinity) is as simple as changing profiles (Alt+1 and Alt+2 in my case).

If you are only running multi monitors I would probably opt for the HD7970 if buying now. The simple reason is that it performs the same as the GTX680 (+/- either way), costs about the same but has extra Vram which could be a game changer in furture titles (GTX680 runs out of memory but the HD7970 doesn't). In addition my HD7970 came with everything required for Eyefinity out of the box. I don't know if the same can be said for the GTX680 (extra leads and adaptors can soon add to the cost).

If I wasn't running Eyefinity I would be all over the GTX680 so please don't take my preference as a sign of favouritism.
 
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But because it's cheap to make that doesn't make it a bad card. You put it being cheap to make as a negative about the card. Although nVidia are making a hefty profit on it.... in come the 670 > 680 rebadge comments lol Im glad Nvidia when for 6 pin connectors, my PSU already had the cables for them. I'd have to but some molex > 8pin cables if they made the GTX680 use 8pins

I was going to get the MSI Lightening 7970 for £500. I got a EVGA 680 over it for two main reasons: it's cheaper and nVidia have better drivers. Also I won't be gaming any higher than 1080P on one screen so have no need for the 3GB of VRAM on the 7970.

I didn't say it made it a bad card, I said it made it bad value.

The 7970 is also bad value.

I think where I differ from most is that I don't allow my judgement to become clouded. Whilst some people look at one thing and judge something and make their decision I tend to look at everything. Every single last part.

You don't need to explain to me why you picked one over the other mate. It's not for me to tell you how to think or feel. I think if a lot of people realised that then the world would be a better place.

You made your purchase based on what you were looking for, maybe who you favour as a company, or maybe on gaming performance only.

I have just pointed out some facts that maybe people should take into consideration.
 
Thanks for all the help :)

Out of curiosity why didn't the new NVIDIA GTX 680 get more/same VRAM as its competitor?

Because GPUs handle memory in multiples. So for example a 1gb GPU could be put out as 1gb, 2gb or 4gb.

You generally tend to find that higher end parts carry higher multiples. Example, 1.5gb 580 or 3gb.

IIRC this comes down to the memory bus, Drunkenmaster is your expert there. Supposedly AMD are coming up with a 1.5gb 7950, but I would imagine it would not run on 1gb.

The 680 *IS* going to get more vram. 4gb all told. However, it's going to cost around £599 or so rumour says, so releasing that card would have been the end of Nvidia. There is no way you can justify paying £100 more for 1gb of vram over a 7970.

As I said, in most every way the 680 is a cut down mid ranged card. From the board up. It's fast, and I give a lot of respect for that. However, some are assuming that the 780 (which in spec will be similar to the 7970 on paper) is going to be ten times faster. It's usually the high end parts (like Fermi 480 and 7970) that disappoint.
 
I like your post Alxandy you seem pretty clever. Im certain some time this year ill be getting a 7970 and hopefully another one.
If you had to guess say by october (my bday) how much do you think they will cost also do you think the drivers would be a lot better?
 
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Because GPUs handle memory in multiples. So for example a 1gb GPU could be put out as 1gb, 2gb or 4gb.

You generally tend to find that higher end parts carry higher multiples. Example, 1.5gb 580 or 3gb.

IIRC this comes down to the memory bus, Drunkenmaster is your expert there. Supposedly AMD are coming up with a 1.5gb 7950, but I would imagine it would not run on 1gb.

The 680 *IS* going to get more vram. 4gb all told. However, it's going to cost around £599 or so rumour says, so releasing that card would have been the end of Nvidia. There is no way you can justify paying £100 more for 1gb of vram over a 7970.

As I said, in most every way the 680 is a cut down mid ranged card. From the board up. It's fast, and I give a lot of respect for that. However, some are assuming that the 780 (which in spec will be similar to the 7970 on paper) is going to be ten times faster. It's usually the high end parts (like Fermi 480 and 7970) that disappoint.

yes it's very odd, my guess is that Nvidia are relying on others to tune/customise this card (as said ) and as such have released it as cut-dowm mid ranged card, that just so happens to be powerful enough to outgun the 580.

but, it is not supposed to be a replacement to the 580..... that's the next 780, this 680 looks like; well i dont know what, maybe it's an earlier version of the 780 !

the GTX 780 is 50% more power than the GTX 580, so maybe 40% more than the GTX680 give or take, whatever ! :cool:

This means it'll be similar to the old GTX 590, or even more when OC, which will be great for you lot. :)

but the GTX 790 will be 65% more powerful than the 590..... FLIPPING HECK, plus run cooler, easier to OC and use less power :eek:

what will AMD do ?....... no idea, but the GTX 780 is deffo the card to get........... but the AMD 7990 is a waste of time for me, because the GTX 790 will be quite a lot better, this is all speculation, but might be based on leaks so could be true.

the GTX 790 is way too much card for me, but wont be in 3 years time, so i dont mind spending now, rather than an extra 500 quid in 2 years time
 
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Apologies for the multiple posts, but I have things to do this arvo and wanted to point a couple of things out that some may find interesting before I forget :D

OK.

Let's look at high end problems and why mid ranged cards seem to have no such problems.

Firstly if you can cast your mind back to when the 1156 CPUs launched you will remember that they were highly overclockable. So overclockable infact that Intel did themselves damage.

At that time near on all games only used two cores. That meant that if you bought a Clarkdale I3 (dual core with HT) and then overclocked it to the obligatory 4ghz that it would perform bang on equal to a I5 that cost double.

There were many reasons for this. However, at a low level the I3 was worse in most every way. It had less cores and less function. However, none of that mattered. Because it only had two cores that meant it ran significantly cooler on the die and because of that you could overclock the crap out of it. And, with most games at that time only supporting dual cores and only really giving a damn about raw clock speed the I3 was a complete success.

OK, now let's look at Sandybridge. Where are the unlocked I3s? Where are the unlocked or overclockable Pentium chips? they don't exist.

But why? Well, put simply I would imagine Intel have realised the error of their ways. They do not want to put out a CPU that costs £80 that can do 5ghz and make their I5s that cost double that look silly.

What I mean is, lower end parts usually need less voltage. Also, because there is less going on on the core itself they run far cooler, meaning one thing. Clock speeds can be raised enormously.

The 2011 chips do overclock very well. However, power consumption is diabolical, as is heat. I read a group test of coolers for the 2011 chips and they say that even a mighty NH-D14 can not tame 2011.

The reason is simple. There is an awful lot going on on the die itself.

Now, using that information let's look at Kepler vs Tahiti.

Kepler, in pretty much every last way is lower spec than Tahiti. It uses a smaller memory bandwidth, smaller die with far less on it, hardly anything in the way of Direct Compute compared to the 7970, needs less power, less components and less metal for the cooler.

However, like the CPUs above because it has less going on on the die itself it is tremendously overclockable. It comes with a clock speed out of the box of over 1ghz.

Now if we cast our minds back we can see that the card, in many many pics, was clocked at just over 700mhz. However, due to the card being a cool customer and not needing more power (due to having less aboard) those clock speeds were massively increasable. To that ends Nvidia simply clocked the balls off of it and it comes as no surprise that it performs amazingly well.

Fermi 480 and 470 on launch were too hot, too loud and used too much power. They were, when compared to the 5870 and 5850 very underwhelming. Sure, they were just about faster. However, for everything they had bolted onto them they should have been a million miles better than they were. So what went wrong? Nvidia invested a lot of money, bolted on everything and the kitchen sink and then started thinking it could easily beat the 5970. It didn't, it was miles off.

Fermi was a disappointment IMO because of everything it promised on paper. Yet, when it finally launched it delivered hardly anything. Too much heat, too much stuff bolted on. Due to that clock speeds had to be lowered and performance suffered.

And then what happened? the 460. Cut down that die, cut back the crap and what are you left with? an enormously overclockable little card thats performance belies its price. Due to less crap being slapped on the die it could run at far higher frequencies. And, CUDA and all of that other stuff Nvidia bolt on there does not help in gaming, so the 460 was a gamer's dream.

In terms of "crap bolted on" to performance the 7850 and 7870 are streets ahead of the 7970. They deliver performance that belies their spec. The reason for that is simple. Less crap bolted on, less heat, higher clocks.
 
why is the next dual CPU AMD 7990 de-tuned and harder to oc, ( if the rumours are true) is this because they know it'll run too hot if OC.

because Nvidia say that their next dual card GTX 790 will be easy to OC, unlike AMDs or even the GTX 590..... maybe it's because the CPU is more efficient
 
why is the next dual CPU AMD 7990 de-tuned and harder to oc, ( if the rumours are true) is this because they know it'll run too hot if OC.

because Nvidia say that their next dual card GTX 790 will be easy to OC, unlike AMDs or even the GTX 590..... maybe it's because the CPU is more efficient

Hmm. I'm not sure if it's about efficiency. I would think it is more about heat, and controlling that heat when you have two GPUs an inch or so apart.
 
yes it's very odd, my guess is that Nvidia are relying on others to tune/customise this card (as said ) and as such have released it as cut-dowm mid ranged card, that just so happens to be powerful enough to outgun the 580.

but, it is not supposed to be a replacement to the 580..... that's the next 780, this 680 looks like; well i dont know what, maybe it's an earlier version of the 780 !

the GTX 780 is 50% more power than the GTX 580, so maybe 40% more than the GTX680 give or take, whatever ! :cool:

This means it'll be similar to the old GTX 590, or even more when OC, which will be great for you lot. :)

but the GTX 790 will be 65% more powerful than the 590..... FLIPPING HECK, plus run cooler, easier to OC and use less power :eek:

what will AMD do ?....... no idea, but the GTX 780 is deffo the card to get........... but the AMD 7990 is a waste of time for me, because the GTX 790 will be quite a lot better, this is all speculation, but might be based on leaks so could be true.

the GTX 790 is way too much card for me, but wont be in 3 years time, so i dont mind spending now, rather than an extra 500 quid in 2 years time

This is a 7970 or 680 thread - not some garbage rumours you've read by googling.
 
A thread like this is just asking for trouble. To the OP, buy what ever card you prefer, as there is nothing between them. Even the 7950 at the cheaper price looks like a very wise buy at the resoloution you play.

Why the constant defence Dave Beast? You constantly jump in and state how great heaven is by even repeat posting of your Heaven score (which incidentally I beat) and then stating how great AMD are (Insecure?).

In fairness, AMD have released a good driver and this has given good returns in fps. All you need to remember though is, Nvidia have had the 680 out for 6 days, The card is on it's 1st driver...I will wait for 3 months and then see if Nvidia have anything driver wise also.

Can you link me to your score, Greg?
 
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