Do extra terrestrials exist? If so...

[ScoTTyBEEE]

Of course it can be disputed even if your claims the picture is real, doesn't mean that the subject wasn't faked then a real picture taken. There's also plenty of delta wing aircraft and even more top secret aircraft. Just have to look at things like the stealth bomber which was the cause of hundreds of UFO sightings as it was designed and built years before public unveiling.

But I know let's instantly jump to the least likely assumption.

There's many reports of these things performing far in excess of current technology. Sure they could be secret aircraft, but then why fly them all over Belgium?

I'd be interested to hear your most likely assumption.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

@Castiel I do indeed, I made the point the other day that ancient people would have considered lightening magic, or an act of God. I believe that's what you mean.

Mmm I understand your second point as well. I find it difficult not to apply logic to everything though!

 

[Naffa]

There is no evidence that extraterrestrials exist, beyond the near certain probability. There is no evidence that they have ever 'visited us', nor that anyone has ever been abducted.

 

[andrewdodd13]

I think it's pretty likely that there'll be life out there; whether we'll actually be able to get to it is another matter entirely. The fact that we've never been approached by other intelligent life does scare me a little bit - it'd be arrogant of us to assume that other races won't be potentially billions of years ahead of us; so why hasn't anyone ever visited? It could be because Einstein's max-speed-is-the-speed-of-light theory is unbreakable -- this would suck massively.

Neil deGrasse Tyson was attributed with a quote regarding people who don't believe aliens exist because we've not found them though - he supposedly said something along the lines of 'People saying that aliens don't exist because we've not found them so far is like taking a small glass of water from the ocean and using that to prove that whales don't exist.'

 

[Glaucus]

Why not, they realised decades ago that ufos was a good cover story for secret aircraft. Again go look at the stealth plane era. It's well documented. It's spawned sightings and a phenomenal Amount of popular culture.
What better way that to test planes in plain sight with no come back.

You then have ball lightning and other natural phenomena that all we don't fully understand aren't exterteristrials by nature.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

There's many reports of these things performing far in excess of current technology. Sure they could be secret aircraft, but then why fly them all over Belgium?

I'd be interested to hear your most likely assumption.

Perhaps they were doing long distance testing. It's important to speculate and not jump to an illogical conclusion here! To quote Sherlock Holmes, "How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?" and in this case, you have certainly not eliminated the possible, for example, the possibility that there are secret aircraft that we do not know the specs of.

 

[Castiel]

There's many reports of these things performing far in excess of current technology. Sure they could be secret aircraft, but then why fly them all over Belgium?

I'd be interested to hear your most likely assumption.

Current technology that the illinformed public have knowledge of, is what I think you mean.....

It may be an Alien Vessel, but it may also simply be a military project that you do not have knowledge of.

Therefore the possibily exists, but it is not definitive evidence.

 

[ScoTTyBEEE]

This is a good documentary for anyone interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIeGeE0uDJg

Also the phoenix lights is a difficult one to explain with so many witnesses.

 

[ScoTTyBEEE]

Current technology that the illinformed public have knowledge of, is what I think you mean.....

It may be an Alien Vessel, but it may also simply be a military project that you do not have knowledge of.

Therefore the possibily exists, but it is not definitive evidence.

True, I cannot dispute that. It's clear with this attitude then unless you literally have something in your hands you'll never have conclusive proof as anything witnessed could be 'secret technology'. It's all subjective.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I think, Scottybeee, the issue you're having is that people who think they know about science make these videos and backup their evidence with proofs that they have made up to fit their own evidence.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

True, I cannot dispute that. It's clear with this attitude then unless you literally have something in your hands you'll never have conclusive proof as anything witnessed could be 'secret technology'. It's all subjective.

I think we have a problem assuming that things are aliens, when no one in the sensationalist conspiracy theorist community listens to real evidence. Every time you show them evidence there's a "but what about this piece of flying turd in the air, how do you explain this" blah blah blah.

 

[ScoTTyBEEE]

I think, Scottybeee, the issue you're having is that people who think they know about science make these videos and backup their evidence with proofs that they have made up to fit their own evidence.

I agree, once, twice, three times e.t.c, but there are SO many witnesses now coming forward from the disclosure project, pilots, military e.t.c saying what they saw was real and with evidence from radar and other sources, surely that can't all be wrong?

 

[dirtychinchilla]

But how can they tell what it is flying around?! It's based entirely on speculation.

 

[Glaucus]

Why would they be wrong.
Just because they are military doesn't mean they know about top secret projects. It's a common mistake thinking one military pilot would know everything going on.
They also aren't physicists and may well not of heard about things like ball lightning.
There's a hole host of human error as well, showen in many cases. Not on purpose it's just the way we interpret are surroundings and are known effects.

 

[ScoTTyBEEE]

But how can they tell what it is flying around?! It's based entirely on speculation.

Look at the evidence, as far as we know we don't have technology that performs as these craft do. You may 'think' we do but you have no proof that we do as I have no proof that they really are extra terrestrial.

 

[Glaucus]

These "crafts" how do you know they are craft and not things like ball lightning Nd other natural phenomena we are trying to understand.

Again go research the stealth plane era, there's even documentaries about it and how it spawned books, films, myths and changed popular culture. With hundreads of ET sightings from so called "experts" but of course these experts aren't really experts. ATC isn't going to privy to some military flights and things like stealth plane can suddenly disappear or reappear, or display a tiny profile when someone on the ground can see a big craft.


Same with the grey alien phanomina, it's been stuudied and followed and it's quite clear it's from popular culture and not real ET, it's a pretty recent idea/image/perception of how ET would look.

 

[Castiel]

@Castiel I do indeed, I made the point the other day that ancient people would have considered lightening magic, or an act of God. I believe that's what you mean.

you would be surprised at the complex understanding of ancient civilisations.....I was making a conjecture similar to what people like Von Daniken make, insofar that our idea of Technology' is simply anothers idea of 'magic'.....they exist, but are simply defined differently according to our understanding. God may well fit into that criteria.

Mmm I understand your second point as well. I find it difficult not to apply logic to everything though!

You can apply logic to anything, but you must consider the different criteria of the position to which you are applying such logic....for example applying a scientific criteria to a faith position will skew the logic applied....as will the opposite, as we see in the so called Christian Science religion where they use Inductive Reasoning rather than Deductive Reasoning to support their position....it can skew the application of logical processes depending on your own initial position.

This is why I try to stick to what I know and what I can illustrate effectively, rather than relying on what I may consider logical assumptions.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

These "crafts" how do you know they are craft and not things like ball lightning Nd other natural phenomena we are trying to understand.

Exactly. There is always an explanation, and people seem to choose the most audacious one available to them.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

you would be surprised at the complex understanding of ancient civilisations.....I was making a conjecture similar to what people like Von Daniken make, insofar that our idea of Technology' is simply anothers idea of 'magic'.....they exist, but are simply defined differently according to our understanding. God may well fit into that criteria.

Ah ok I see now.

You can apply logic to anything, but you must consider the different criteria of the position to which you ate applying such logic....for example applying a scientific criteria to a faith position will skew the logic applied....as will the opposite, as we see in the so called Christian Science religion where they use Inductive Reasoning rather than Deductive Reasoning to support their position....it can skew the application of logical processes depending on your own initial position.

This is why I try to stick to what I know and what I can illustrate effectively, rather than relying on what I may consider logical assumptions.

I understand. I'll look into different forms of logic

 

[HAz]

I believe there is a small planet with wild dogs roaming free living in caves