Soldato
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- 29 Sep 2011
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Yes, but I'm hoping that they can be cheated
ie, instantaneously with zero travel time.Do extra terrestrials exist? If so...
- Thread starter airrunner
- Start date
Yes, but I'm hoping that they can be cheated
ie, instantaneously with zero travel time.
Given nothing, you simply are.
I think contact might well be made long before then if there are other people relatively close. Some might have just started out and aren't yet technologically developed to our level, some not intellectually developed to our level...but some might be as developed or more developed.
I think it likely that intelligent people would be curious. Maybe it's a lack of imagination on my part, but I can't see intelligence without at least some degree of curiosity.
These hypothetical people may well be looking outwards to at least some extent and may well be thinking about the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere.
(As an aside, maybe there's a global computer network on another world and some people in a forum on it talking about the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere
)So it's possible that either they might detect artificial emissions from Earth or humans might detect artificial emissions from their planet. If that happens, it's possible that we might establish communication - a form of contact. A slow form, with messages taking dozens of years to arrive, but a form of contact. That's probably possible with our current level of technology. It's certainly possible with technology not far ahead of ours.
Although it's possible that much more advanced technology wouldn't leak emissions all over the place, so maybe more advanced technology would be a disadvantage in this scenario.
It isn't ignorant to believe something different to yourself.....neither position has any conclusive evidence to support it, one position may be more probable than the other (it also may not, probability is not certainty)....what you have is 'faith' that the probability that we are not alone is sufficent to disreagard any other possibility.
In fact that kind of certainty, coupled with the belief that any other position is ignorant, is ignorance in itself.
It is a faith position if you are ascribing certainty to a possible conclusion.....the probability is immaterial. Faith doesn't indicate a lack of reasoning or even a lack of proof.....it describes a position whereby someone makes definitive conclusions without being able to support them conclusively.
You are effectively putting your trust in what you believe is a probable reality....this is faith. People seem to think the word faith only applies to a religious or spiritual belief, that is not true....the meaning of faith is very broad and you can have faith in just about anything or anyone. It simply means you hold a conclusive position without being about to conclusively support that position.
That is basically all that faith is, putting your trust in something or someone without having conclusive evidence, in this case trusting that the possibility of ETs is so probable as to be indisputable. (given the problems of the drake equation and all the previous discussion on the various possibilities, I surprised people are still arguing over the word 'faith' as if it is an insult or something or calling those who do not agree with them names)
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Indeed.....assuming anyone who doesn't believe in EXtraterrestrial life is ignorant for example.
This is where your missing the point completely, show me one post where somebody said categorically et exist that's fact?! No one, you are simply exaggerating people's response. Again using logical theory, I would agree if somebody issued a confirmed statement of this fact, of which no one has.
This faith response nonsense is becoming an almost robotic response on your behalf. Add to the topic constructively or simply don't post as you have been off on a tangent on this topic for days!
Have you actually read the thread?.....People are ascribing certainty to the position all the time, some going so far as to call anyone who disputes it as being ignorant.
For example post#4 of this thread:
Post#5:
Post#11:
And that is just a few responses ascribing certainty on the first page of this thread.
I am certainly not missing the point, you simpy cannot read.
It is not nonsence....what is nonsence is your response to it. And stating that I am not adding constructively is simply laughable and you have absolutely no authority to demand I do not post in this or any other thread..
Do you also demand all the other posters that have discussed this in an sensible and adult way are also removed from the thread?.....Should Dimple, Angillion, Skyfall, Glaucus to name a few also cede to you demand to not dispute your opinion.
I suggest that you get over yourself and accept that people have various opinions that may not agree with yours and that attempting to censor what you cannot counter effectively or simply do not understand is frankly embarrassing on your part.
May I ask why you are so offended by people saying that you have faith in the existence of extraterrestrial life?
It isn't an insult or anything other than an observation, people have faith in all kinds of things, faith doesn't even have to be absolute either......I have faith for example, that Science will eventually find the cure to cancer....I have no conclusive proof of that, instead I rely on my judgement and the consideration of all the factors I am aware of and have come to the conclusion that the probability is in it's favour...therefore I have a belief (I have faith) that the conclusion I have made is a correct one.
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Castiel, it seems that if anyone says that they think that it is almost a certainty that we are not alone in the universe, you need to come in and tell them they are taking a 'faith' position.
By your own admission we don't know.
And for someone who is 'agnostic' to the idea, you certainly put up quite a stink when someone is in the other camp?
There is no evidence to say there isn't other life out there, and there is no evidence that there is.
Can't people have an opinion different from yourself without you bringing faith into it?
I'm pretty sure that if you asked pretty much any scientific mind of our generation, they would be of the same conclusion that there is other life out there, intelligent or not, that does not mean they are using 'faith'. Just that every scientific thinking in their head is pointing to it being extreamly likely, almost a certainty, that there is other life out there.
By your own admission we don't know.
And for someone who is 'agnostic' to the idea, you certainly put up quite a stink when someone is in the other camp?
There is no evidence to say there isn't other life out there, and there is no evidence that there is.
Can't people have an opinion different from yourself without you bringing faith into it?
I'm pretty sure that if you asked pretty much any scientific mind of our generation, they would be of the same conclusion that there is other life out there, intelligent or not, that does not mean they are using 'faith'. Just that every scientific thinking in their head is pointing to it being extreamly likely, almost a certainty, that there is other life out there.
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Whilst you consider the vast size of the universe you also need to consider the time element. If you consider that a civilisation may have a finite timespan you also need to think about these overlapping as well. So the dinosaurs although not intelligent came and went but had a decent shot at it and us humans have only been around for a small timeframe. We may not be around forever and the next species will pick up in some timeframe in the future. So two intelligent civilisations need to exist close enough at the same time making the probablility of it happening smaller again.
Anyway like you totally believe there is life out there - maybe not with 2 legs and arms but certainly as small organisms at the very least
If Stephen Hawkings says there is life out there then that's good enough for me.
http://brembs.net/SWH.html
http://brembs.net/SWH.html
Who said probability?
Lots of people, just read the last page.
Just because you cannot quantify the probability accurately dosent mean you cannot show that even with the very large numbers and with the sheer size of the universe that the probability of life does not exist
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Not at all, I am responding to people who are disputing what I am saying....I am actually defending my original statement and it is you and others that actually keep bringing it up.
I am also not the person who has spent the past few days discussing it the most, you should be looking at Angillion if I were you...I was simply agreeing with him to some extent.
And as I have mentioned before, I am not in the other camp I do in fact believe that Extraterrestrial life is entirely possible and it would would surprise me immensely if we were the only intelligent life in the Universe and would be pretty flummoxed to find that there was no other life at all.....I do not however ascribe definitive positive positions to my beliefs however much I may have faith in the probability of the position and therein lies the difference between us.
Again, nonsense....I am defending against refutation of what I have said and disagreeing when people are making claims of a definitive nature whilst calling others who actually understand the difference between certainty and possibility ignorant or worse.
Where have I said that others cannot hold any opinion, in fact I have stated the contrary and this is what has fuelled the discussion regarding how people attribute definitive positions to probable scenarios.
Do you actually understand what 'faith' refers to in the informal context of this discussion, I don't think you do and why would you be so vehemently opposed to someone saying that a belief in Extra terrestrials is a faith position, if people like yourself were not intent on trying to proof that it is not then the subject would not be raised so often.
I think you need to look to yourself and not me quite frankly.
Which simply illustrates that you clearly do not understand what people are saying when they are referring to someone having faith in a conclusion drawn from extrapolation.
I also note that in pretty much every post you have to mention the word 'certainty'....it is not almost a certainty at all...it is just probable. You might want to review the thread as well regarding your claim that every scientist is thinking it is almost a certainty (there is that word again), as has been explained there is more than one Scientific Hypothesis regarding the existence of Extraterrestrial life. Your adherence to the Copernican Hypothesis does not imply that there are not any other valid hypothesis out there.
It just seems that people cannot effectively defend their opinion and are now looking to attack the poster rather than the post....
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You can't show anything, it's not just not accurate, it has no value you can't even guess. What happens if it's 1x10^100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
In which case doesn't matter that the universe is huge, on the other had it could be 1/4 and life is pretty much everywhere.
