Guild Wars 2

InKursion said:
Entirely your opinion. There are a long line of MMO games that subscribe to a different game philosophy that precisely rewards player's achievement with better gear so that they can have a more 'epic' and powerful character. Not every MMO has to go for the 'refined 1v1 balance' approach. Some MMO's entire appeal consists in being able to build an extremely powerful character - through your efforts and achievements - in order to present a daunting opponent to the other mere mortals on your realm. It's all part of the fun. Not every MMO needs to try and balance itself to be an arena esport. You're being incredibly closed-minded. The difference in taste and opinion (and it is just that: opinion) is really the defining difference between WoW and GW. It is why they will never truly 'compete' against one another in any more meaningful way than sales figures.
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I can understand where you are coming from but sometimes it becomes a case of whoever has more time to play the game gets the better gear and those that don't sit at a disadvantage for longer periods of time.

SWTOR is a prime example. on my server Republic are outnumbered and the empire are more organised. The empire players that play all day everyday (winning most) are already in full War Hero gear and have nearly instant queue pops. On repub side I have been waiting ~20 mins for games and losing more often than not due to a lack or organisation and being badly outgeared.

If gear was normalised and rewards were more epic looks, colour crystals, fancy titles etc I am sure it wouldnt put people off as long as they felt "unique" and "special" with their OMG DARTH VADER style armour as opposed to the plebs in space alien jump suits.
 
Robbo said:
You didn't prove anything. You just argue constantly about mundane things. You bore me.
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How does that screen-shot not prove what I said is true? ..ahh wait I bet you convinced yourself I made that screen-shop up :) .. and the reason as I have been asked why I blanked out the OP in that SS was because they active on this site.)

Its also funny how you fail to notice/mention that this and like most of the rest was not started by me at all, Only thing I'm guilty of is replying to the ones that are about the guild.

Added this SS http://www.2shared.com/photo/Wq6_JhK4/Untitled.html
 
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InKursion said:
in order to present a daunting opponent to the other mere mortals on your realm.
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Except they are all doing the same thing and these games never have a Red Queen mechanic you get the same end result with no "mere mortals". It depends whether you want the graft and think that it is worthwhile and whether the developers feel like alienating a significant proportion of the player base. The only MMO I can think of that I enjoyed that had mere mortals was SWG and that was one of a kind anyways.
 
Fenris said:
How exactly does that effect the balance of the PvP?
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Thats not especially about the balance, its about being able to PVP without having to grind though however long it takes to sufficiently level and gear a PVE character, which in a game like WoW can take many months before you can play PVP with an equal and fair chance.

GW is based on the philosophy of skill > time played, and this is one of the most important aspects that make the game appealing to so many players.

Trying to describe this and its merits to fans of traditional MMOs is simply useless as they dont ever understand.

The single worst aspect that is being put into GW2 is the increased level cap to 80. The only reason they added this was to appeal to traditional MMORPG fans, while keeping a flat levelling curve to minimize grind for GW1 fans. PVP characters will still be able to be made at maximum level and all skill unlocks with maximum stat gear right from the start of the game.
 
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wab said:
How does that screen-shot not prove what I said is true? ..ahh wait I bet you convinced yourself I made that screen-shop up :) .. and the reason as I have been asked why I blanked out the OP in that SS was because they active on this site.)
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It's not proof though, it's a few people discussing suspicions with no proof at all.

Anyway, as I said earlier, try and stop being a child and talk a bit more about the game. I enjoy reading some of the posts in this thread but there are some people who continuously crop up spouting their usual incessant bile.
 
Furbs said:
I can understand where you are coming from but sometimes it becomes a case of whoever has more time to play the game gets the better gear and those that don't sit at a disadvantage for longer periods of time.

SWTOR is a prime example. on my server Republic are outnumbered and the empire are more organised. The empire players that play all day everyday (winning most) are already in full War Hero gear and have nearly instant queue pops. On repub side I have been waiting ~20 mins for games and losing more often than not due to a lack or organisation and being badly outgeared.

If gear was normalised and rewards were more epic looks, colour crystals, fancy titles etc I am sure it wouldnt put people off as long as they felt "unique" and "special" with their OMG DARTH VADER style armour as opposed to the plebs in space alien jump suits.
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Some MMO's don't pretend to be anything other than time-rewarding. It's an oldschool, hardcore system that doesn't favour casuals or weekend-warriors. And so what? Again, they're not pretending to be anything else. Some people do play for the treadmill and grind. It's just a different game-design philosophy - and it's not for everyone. Doesn't mean it is inherently flawed or 'wrong'.
 
I am an avid hater of levelling MMO's, I am happy to level the first time but the ALT grind kills me. The fact you are able to just create a level 1 character of a different class and take part in PvP with your max level friends straight away is amazing to me.

How often does it happen that you lack a certain class because someone is on holiday, out drinking etc (how dare they). No its a case of "don't worry I'll make one now".

Obviously WvW is a different matter.
 
InKursion said:
Some MMO's don't pretend to be anything other than time-rewarding. It's an oldschool, hardcore system that doesn't favour casuals or weekend-warriors. And so what? Again, they're not pretending to be anything else. Some people do play for the treadmill and grind. It's just a different game-design philosophy - and it's not for everyone. Doesn't mean it is inherently flawed or 'wrong'.
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Funny thing about you is that you both right.
 
bhavv said:
Thats not especially about the balance, its about being able to PVP without having to grind though however long it takes to sufficiently level and gear a PVE character, which in a game like WoW can take many months before you can play PVP with an equal and fair chance.

GW is based on the philosophy of skill > time played, and this is one of the most important aspects that make the game appealing to so many players.

Trying to describe this and its merits to fans of traditional MMOs is simply useless as they dont ever understand.

The single worst aspect that is being put into GW2 is the increased level cap to 80. The only reason they added this was to appeal to traditional MMORPG fans, while keeping a flat levelling curve to minimize grind for GW1 fans. PVP characters will still be able to be made at maximum level and all skill unlocks with maximum stat gear right from the start of the game.
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I have played both hardcore so again, you can't quite place me out beyond your privileged pale and declare (rather all teenager-like) that I "just don't understaaaand". I do understand. What I don't understand is your raging egotism and need to so eagerly confront people over your beloved GW. Nobody is disparaging the game or making poor comparisons. You are constructing straw-men in your head so that you can sit back and cooly congratulate yourself as you burn them.
 
bhavv said:
PVP characters will still be able to be made at maximum level and all skill unlocks with maximum stat gear right from the start of the game.
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Is this actually true? It isn't in GW1 iirc, you either have to buy them with balth points or buy them.

I do love that feature, being able to make a PvP character at any time is brilliant and I wish more MMOs had it. However as you said its moire a convenience thing and doesn't actually effect the PvP.
 
InKursion said:
Some MMO's don't pretend to be anything other than time-rewarding. It's an oldschool, hardcore system that doesn't favour casuals or weekend-warriors. And so what? Again, they're not pretending to be anything else. Some people do play for the treadmill and grind. It's just a different game-design philosophy - and it's not for everyone. Doesn't mean it is inherently flawed or 'wrong'.
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I didn't say there was anything wrong with it but it is very frustrating when your on the recieving end of it. I used to play WoW hardcore and put in the hours to grind gear etc but life has changed and now I can't.

I still love to game and I love MMO's, but being outgeared and punished in PvP for having a life does become annoying. Rating brackets and proper matchmaking do help to counter this problem but not all games have this as a working feature (WoW does, SWTOR doesn't).
 
Tempted buy this. I was an avid WoW player and also gave ToR a shot when it came out. In a nutshell, is this going to be similar?

How do you get access to the weekend beta? I'd rather not pre-purchase the game before I have even played it.
 
Furbs said:
I am an avid hater of levelling MMO's, I am happy to level the first time but the ALT grind kills me. The fact you are able to just create a level 1 character of a different class and take part in PvP with your max level friends straight away is amazing to me.

How often does it happen that you lack a certain class because someone is on holiday, out drinking etc (how dare they). No its a case of "don't worry I'll make one now".

Obviously WvW is a different matter.
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In my opinion the levelling is an enjoyable part of the process - the pleasure of the journey itself, rather than the destination, if you will - and I see its merits. I think the "instantly compete at top-level" thing is a bit of a high-hoped illusion. The simple fact is that, through the long (and occasionally laborious) levelling process, you learn your character and its skills; you gain familiarity with the talents and styles of play; you level with your character, in short. Anyone that has played on a friend's WoW account and taken a max-level character for a spin will understand just how initially confusing it is to play the class well. This isn't an insurmountable problem, of course, but I think the imagined-scenario of someone 'quickly rolling a substitute class' won't work very well.
 
Robi said:
Tempted buy this. I was an avid WoW player and also gave ToR a shot when it came out. In a nutshell, is this going to be similar?

How do you get access to the weekend beta? I'd rather not pre-purchase the game before I have even played it.
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Well then you cannot access the weekend beta ;)
 
InKursion said:
Some MMO's don't pretend to be anything other than time-rewarding. It's an oldschool, hardcore system that doesn't favour casuals or weekend-warriors. And so what? Again, they're not pretending to be anything else. Some people do play for the treadmill and grind. It's just a different game-design philosophy - and it's not for everyone. Doesn't mean it is inherently flawed or 'wrong'.
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To a lot of people, yes it does.

The main reason why games like WoW require so much grind is to keep people playing and paying the fee. Its not based on any kind of 'oldschool hardcore system', I fail to see how WoW, as simple as it was when I played it for 2 months, is anywhere close to the level of 'hardcore' that GW1 was when I was new to the game.

Adding more grind and a time consuming treadmill doesnt increase the difficulty of a game or make it anymore hardcore, GW with its mere 20 levels is one of, if not the most hardcore RPG games I have played in terms of sheer difficulty and challenge of the content. DDO is another one - only 20 levels, easy to reach max level in less than a week, and while there is gear creep, end game raid level equipment is so meaninglessly easy to obtain that it doesnt deter me from the game. The gameplay, even with only have 20 levels is still significantly more challenging than the vast majority of games out there with 80+ levels.
 
Robi said:
Tempted buy this. I was an avid WoW player and also gave ToR a shot when it came out. In a nutshell, is this going to be similar?

How do you get access to the weekend beta? I'd rather not pre-purchase the game before I have even played it.
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Unfortunately unless you really lucky and get a normal beta invite, you have to pre-purchase the game (not pre-order).
 
Robi said:
How do you get access to the weekend beta? I'd rather not pre-purchase the game before I have even played it.
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Well this may be a problem you have to pre-purchase to get the chance to try it (bar an odd few). Maybe nip around to someone else who has it. Or you can trust me (a complete stranger) when I say the game rocks (but not as much as Archeage which really really rocks) and shell out the money.
 
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