Depression : State of mind or Medical condition

paradisiac said:
the thing that intreges me, is you clearly know you have a problem, you dont want to have the problem, but its still there.
like others have said, they feel they are not depressed as they have a wanting to snap out of it, but so do you. so what makes some people pick themselves up, and what stops others?

(i dont mean any of that in a partonising or offensive way)
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I want to be clear that I am relatively new at experiencing depression this deep so others might be able to offer more valuable insight. That said, I think a lot of it is simply the fact that things I have tried have not worked. In addition to this, I feel awkward around even those who are close to me and have trouble thinking what to say or keeping a conversation going if they start one (although this is not entirely unusual for me in a good mood, at least with people I don't know so well). I guess the depth of it is a factor as well. Self help is definitely easier in mild to moderate states.
 
DangerMoose said:
And if anyone reading this is thinking "just pull yourself together", I can assure you this is a thought I have a lot as well.
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i don't think that and i hope others don't either.

what i would say is, you mention about losing concentration with reading, you've been kind enough to read through and reply to numerous posts from me and others in this topic. this has to be a good thing, right?

once again, i really appreciate your openness and honesty, even if it is only a forum. small steps and all o dat!
 
Xordium said:
What makes one person move forward with their life after an amputation and what makes another fall into the situation some people on here describe. Motivation, capability, possibility along with support structures amongst a whole load of other things. Once again you are looking a symptom - depressed mood -that can have a variety of causes. The causes will often dictate how well someone can change that mood.

What is positive though is that a number of people have described, in this thread, how they are feeling and people are wanting to understand and most importantly do accept. That is a significant shift in perception and comprehension by society.
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the reason i started the thread was because i felt i was ignorant to this, even though it seemed to be fairly common. and that saddened me, that i, like most others, assumed depression was just someone being lazy and not wanting to change things. after speaking to some people (after being acused of being depressed myself) i began to think maybe it was something that was uncontrolable and even if someone did seem to have their perfect life, they still had depression.
this seems to be the case with DangerMoose. he has a kid and a wife, and seems to want to 'snap out of it', and has good reason for motivation and has support. but thats not enough, which kind of backs up peoples opinions that its a brain chemical thing, that needs to be treated.
i do not claim to understand what is right and wrong, as i know very little about the topic. but there seems to be good arguments for it being a lifestyle issue and others for it being something that needs medication.
 
cm1179 said:
i don't think that and i hope others don't either.

what i would say is, you mention about losing concentration with reading, you've been kind enough to read through and reply to numerous posts from me and others in this topic. this has to be a good thing, right?

once again, i really appreciate your openness and honesty, even if it is only a forum. small steps and all o dat!
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Well first of all, I guess it helps that you have all been kind enough to keep your posts relatively short. :D

Secondly, I guess I am feeling a little more focused at the moment than I have been of late. And yes, this is a good thing. Talking does help and typing out responses does help to focus my thoughts a little as well. I tend to have trouble getting explaining myself clearly to my GP but took the time to put it in writing and this helped get the message across. It is possible that I should try to write more whilst I am like this.
 
paradisiac said:
the thing that intreges me, is you clearly know you have a problem, you dont want to have the problem, but its still there.
like others have said, they feel they are not depressed as they have a wanting to snap out of it, but so do you. so what makes some people pick themselves up, and what stops others?

(i dont mean any of that in a partonising or offensive way)
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In my experience, several times now on and off for the last 13 years, 'picking you're self up' is absolutely impossible, even asking for help I found very difficult (i can't really explain it), I didn't have any enjoyment in activities i enjoyed. Energy levels are extremely low, even getting out of bed is a major effort, ability to concentrate and make decisions is also reduced. It basically ends up as a downward spiral of isolation, negative emotions etc.

Obviously other peoples experience of depression will be different. i've gone down both the antidepressent and seeing a psychologist/psychiatrist and for me drug therapy has been more affective. Took several tries to find the best drug, hated the way ssri's and snri's made me feel. Been on amitriptyline and mirtazipine since 2006. has been a long time but as i can't stop the cause (intractable pain) antidepressents are essential as without them it turns in to a downward spiral, each condition making the other worse.
 
paradisiac said:
but there seems to be good arguments for it being a lifestyle issue and others for it being something that needs medication.
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Try and get this book if you can. It doesn't really talk about depression much from what I remember, read it years ago on a long haul flight, but it will explain this concept: that what happens to people's lifestyles and what happens to someone from a genetic viewpoint are not mutually exclusive and that they are intrinsically linked. Once you get that concept and can understand a little of its application all of this will fall into place and make sense. And so will a great many other things.
 
Xordium said:
Try and get this book if you can. It doesn't really talk about depression much from what I remember, read it years ago on a long haul flight, but it will explain this concept: that what happens to people's lifestyles and what happens to someone from a genetic viewpoint are not mutually exclusive and that they are intrinsically linked. Once you get that concept and can understand a little of its application all of this will fall into place and make sense. And so will a great many other things.
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i believe there is a documentary about this too (sorry i cant read books, by the end of page 2 i have forgotten what i read on page 1).
i dont know, for some reason, with everything going on in my life at the moment, i have been finding trying to learn about new things or get a greater understanding of things has been really good for me. i have been watching a lot of documentaries on stuff that i wouldnt normally give a **** about, just so i know a bit more about something new.

does this make me weird, coz as im writing it, im starting to feel like a numpty.
 
Van Hellseek said:
Well lets look at your question... You're asking if it's a "medical" condition.


With the above definition the answer is obviously yes, since depression can be treated with psychiatric drugs.

However, I suspect what you are really attempting to ask is whether depression is biological or purely psychological. To which there is no clear-cut answer, because psychology is largely determined by a whole variety of factors, including biology.
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End thread :cool: Well answered. Although the last sentence could be possibly be interpreted as implying that biology is a factor that definitely influences depression - I would maybe add some sort of disclaimer that whilst biology undoubtedly is a factor determining psychology (I don't know how you could realistically separate the two completely) it may not be a contributing factor, or certainly not a major contributing factor, to depression.
 
Depression is hard to explain unless you have it, it's not a case of oh bugger I've no money and my girlfiend is shagging my best mate type of feeling that gets you down. It's more of a feeling of nothing no real feelings other than dread and pain and everything that your mind can come up with thats bad.

The good days are good but the bad weeks roll on like a fog, you seem just to drift through life taking your pills. As for the NHS and there treatments they can go jump I was offered CBT 3 30mins sessions and 3 telephone calls, man that helped. I've learned to live with It now like an old friend that's never going away.
 
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Robosapien said:
I would maybe add some sort of disclaimer that whilst biology undoubtedly is a factor determining psychology (I don't know how you could realistically separate the two completely) it may not be a contributing factor, or certainly not a major contributing factor, to depression.
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Oh really are you really sure about that. What about depression found with:

Addison's
Graves'
Systemic lupus erythematosus
Multiple sclerosis
Anaemia
Hypoglycemia

So you are saying non of those are the major contributing factor in the people who have those conditions?
 
burtie said:
Depression is hard to explain unless you have it, it's not a case of oh bugger I've no money and my girlfiend is shagging my best mate type of feeling that gets you down. It's more of a feeling of nothing no real feelings other than dread and pain and everything that your mind can come up with thats bad.

The good days are good but the bad weeks roll on like a fog, you seem just to drift through life taking your pills. As for the NHS and there treatments they can go jump I was offered CBT 3 30mins sessions and 3 telephone calls, man that helped. I've learned to live with It now like an old friend that's never going away.
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Seems like an odd protocol (3 sessions and 3 phone calls).
 
burtie said:
It's the NHS cost cutting 3 30min session after that 3 follow up calls at home, last phone call I said thanks I better now, I did laugh in a manic way though.
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I am sorry your experience was so poor! Please don't let it put you off CBT - it has some seriously good evidence for promoting change :)
 
burtie said:
Depression is hard to explain unless you have it, it's not a case of oh bugger I've no money and my girlfiend is shagging my best mate type of feeling that gets you down. It's more of a feeling of nothing no real feelings other than dread and pain and everything that your mind can come up with thats bad.

The good days are good but the bad weeks roll on like a fog, you seem just to drift through life taking your pills.
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Yeah. It is like you become your own worst enemy. Your brain becomes an instrument of torture.

As for the NHS and there treatments they can go jump I was offered CBT 3 30mins sessions and 3 telephone calls, man that helped. I've learned to live with It now like an old friend that's never going away.
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One problem that I am finding with the NHS is that I got referred to counselling, discussions with them resulted in me being referred elsewhere and they no longer want to know. Which, along with the lack of meds, is part of the reason I am in limbo at the moment.
 
fus said:
I am sorry your experience was so poor! Please don't let it put you off CBT - it has some seriously good evidence for promoting change :)
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Yeah I know it does, I even went and paid for it after, it just did not work for me Maybe I'm bitter hehe. I want to see a real nut doctor you know get on the couch and really get into it and try and solve it but everything costs sadly.
 
burtie said:
Yeah I know it does, I even went and paid for it after, it just did not work for me Maybe I'm bitter hehe. I want to see a real nut doctor you know get on the couch and really get into it and try and solve it but everything costs sadly.
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The typical approach that you're imagining is called psychodynamics. I am not a huge fan of this form of therapy (in fact, I'd spend the money on pretty much every other therapy before I considered it) but there are still some out there who insist on its value.

CBT is a bizarre one. There are many people out there who claim to be providing the service, but there are strict guidelines to how the service should be delivered. I only hope that yours was registered and stuck to the programme!

(Being very careful not to give advice here and get this thread closed! :o )
 
She did stick to the programme and she was very good and registered but CBT focus's on the here and now and not the past, It's the past that needs fixing.

I found alcohol good at helping my problems and making them worse, now I cycle loads and that has helped me more than anything else.
 
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burtie said:
It's the past that needs fixing.
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I am sure there was some strange study being published soon or has by now which found a statistical significance that it need not be the past but possibly the future that could be causing the problems. I'll see if I can track it down. It was a funny one that's for sure.
 
burtie said:
It's the past that needs fixing.
.
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why?

the past is done and gone never to be changed so no point worrying about it, You've got to be looking where you want to be to get there, if you looking back you'll never get anywhere.
 
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