Tories whose dads are well off.

Castiel · 15 May 2012 at 17:19

dirtychinchilla said:
In addition, by increasing the minimum wage, the cost of anything increases because people still want to make their margins.

Which is what I meant by moving the line....the relative line between prices and income.

dirtychinchilla · 15 May 2012 at 17:23

I know, I was just adding to it. Sorry!

Dave M · 15 May 2012 at 17:26

Castiel said:
But then they technically would not be on minimum wage.....they would have a joint family income if we assume two earners.

1 income, stay at home wife.

In any case, a person would find it enormously hard to do all that on a minimum wage income.....

You cut your cloth to fit. It's certainly easier being poor these days than it was 30 years ago, the price of clothes in the supermarket has made jumble sales a thing of the past. Food is cheap, entertainment is on tap.

Lets face it, we've never had it so good

estebanrey · 15 May 2012 at 17:28

Telescopi said:
You cut your cloth to fit. It's certainly easier being poor these days than it was 30 years ago, the price of clothes in the supermarket has made jumble sales a thing of the past. Food is cheap, entertainment is on tap.

Lets face it, we've never had it so good

There is saying about the two truisms of life, things will always get better and people will always think it's getting worse.

dirtychinchilla · 15 May 2012 at 17:29

I've noticed, however, that a lot of people who allegedly can't afford food etc continue to buy everything from supermarkets, frozen. If they bought fresh food and actually made stuff themselves it would be substantially less of an issue. Money management is one of the problems, although, I have to say, I imagine it would be very difficult living on minimum wage, but perhaps one should have made more of oneself.

shoes · 15 May 2012 at 17:29

Who gives a **** about what those on NMW can and cannot afford. Should have studied harder/paid more attention/worked harder tbh.

Zefan · 15 May 2012 at 17:31

elmarko1234 said:
Not anybody can do them to a reasonable standard, neither is the work done to a high standard by people who are paid peanuts.

The company I work for pays customer service agents (a job anybody can do) well above the national average for that kind of job (about 20k) - it's hardly surprising that we have the highest customer service rating in the industry & have done for the last 10 years.

You're contradicting yourself there.

You're right at one thing though, if you pay more you get more. Your company has obviously realised this, and has decided to pay a higher salary for its customer services agents as it obviously wants to be regarded as above average at customer service.

That's exactly what I mean though, a lot of companies don't care about being seen as above average in that way, so are happy to pay less and have worse customer service. It's so simple. People who are paid more do a better job, WOW SHOCKING NEWS.

estebanrey · 15 May 2012 at 17:32

dirtychinchilla said:
I've noticed, however, that a lot of people who allegedly can't afford food etc continue to buy everything from supermarkets, frozen. If they bought fresh food and actually made stuff themselves it would be substantially less of an issue. Money management is one of the problems, although, I have to say, I imagine it would be very difficult living on minimum wage, but perhaps one should have made more of oneself.

The trouble with that is we don't live a truly meritocratic society. There are plenty of useless, thick people who are on high wages because of who they know or are related to.

There are numerous reasons as to why people can find themselves on minimum wage, not trying hard enough at school is merely one of them.

Zero Pope · 15 May 2012 at 17:35

shoes said:
Who gives a **** about what those on NMW can and cannot afford. Should have studied harder/paid more attention/worked harder tbh.

Because every single person on NMW at this point in time and this economic climate is uneducated obviously. :rolleyes:

Castiel · 15 May 2012 at 17:41

Telescopi said:
1 income, stay at home wife.

You cut your cloth to fit. It's certainly easier being poor these days than it was 30 years ago, the price of clothes in the supermarket has made jumble sales a thing of the past. Food is cheap, entertainment is on tap.

Lets face it, we've never had it so good

A family on £912 a week will not be having a holiday every year, and if they do they will not be socialising any other times....

Food isn't cheap anymore, fuel costs are increasing enormously, housing costs would eat up at least half that £912 if not more and that is just the rent/mortgage. It may be easier being poor today than in 1970....but then the relative standard of living has increased accordingly.

A couple living on £912 a month are certainly poor by relative standards and I'm not saying that a couple cannot live a happy life on minimum wage either, but as happy as it might be, it won't be easy and it will be full of hard choices when it comes to their very limited disposable income (if they actually have any most weeks)...

Castiel · 15 May 2012 at 17:49

dirtychinchilla said:
I've noticed, however, that a lot of people who allegedly can't afford food etc continue to buy everything from supermarkets, frozen. If they bought fresh food and actually made stuff themselves it would be substantially less of an issue. Money management is one of the problems, although, I have to say, I imagine it would be very difficult living on minimum wage, but perhaps one should have made more of oneself.

This comes up a lot....I actually tried this. I bough fresh food every day, made fresh meals, made bulk soups/stews etc, and my shopping bill increased by 40% over the month. We had less waste but the costs were probably beyond a family on minimum wages.

It is easy to say 'it's your fault, you should have tried harder', however if everyone earned above minimum wage, then all that would happen is relative living costs would increase to compensate and the 'minimum wage' would simply be the lowest wage scale........

Hatter The Mad · 15 May 2012 at 17:50

dirtychinchilla said:
I've noticed, however, that a lot of people who allegedly can't afford food etc continue to buy everything from supermarkets, frozen. If they bought fresh food and actually made stuff themselves it would be substantially less of an issue. Money management is one of the problems, although, I have to say, I imagine it would be very difficult living on minimum wage, but perhaps one should have made more of oneself.

Frozen food (like veg, fish) is cheaper and fresher than so-called 'fresh food'.

It's a problem when they opt for processed/read ****

estebanrey · 15 May 2012 at 17:51

I'd have thought you'd produce more waste with fresh food unless you are very good and knowing exactly how much you will use. Freezer food can stay there for ages until you are ready to eat it.

dirtychinchilla · 15 May 2012 at 17:53

I agree with you on the second point there Castiel, I guess there always has to be someone at the bottom.

That's interesting that you tried the fresh food thing...in an ideal world we'd all have gardens, which isn't always the case if you're working for minimum wage. But, if people are concerned about money, surely an easy way to reduce their food bill (provided they even know how to cook after all those frozen meals

) would be to grow their own vegetables.

Castiel · 15 May 2012 at 17:53

estebanrey said:
I'd have thought you'd produce more waste with fresh food unless you are very good and knowing exactly how much you will use. Freezer food can stay there for ages until you are ready to eat it.

Portion control is easier with fresh food....but it is a fallacy that fresh food is cheaper than buying processed/frozen packed food.....it isn't.

dirtychinchilla · 15 May 2012 at 17:55

If you go to the mainstream supermarkets I definitely agree with you, but here in Leeds, if you go to any of the Asian supermarkets everything is substantially cheaper.

Castiel · 15 May 2012 at 17:57

dirtychinchilla said:
I agree with you on the second point there Castiel, I guess there always has to be someone at the bottom.

That's interesting that you tried the fresh food thing...in an ideal world we'd all have gardens, which isn't always the case if you're working for minimum wage. But, if people are concerned about money, surely an easy way to reduce their food bill (provided they even know how to cook after all those frozen meals ) would be to grow their own vegetables.

Easy to grow your own when you love in a nice house with a large enough garden....but then houses with land cost lots of money....money that they don't have.

The problem is wealth inequality, frugal money management can only do so much, and not that much either.

dirtychinchilla · 15 May 2012 at 17:57

Indeed, but a lot of council houses, for example, have plenty of garden space to grow vegetables in.

Tefal · 15 May 2012 at 17:58

mr_stat said:
Tefal, your argument is that people are narrow minded, my view of the Greek situation is just as strong as most people's view of our internal politics. In fact my view of Greece is probably much stronger. What I'm saying is it's hard to predict thus I think there's no clear answer (I.e. being open minded). I seriously can't see your point on this.

and again you still haven't seen the difference between narrow minded and narrow world view.

It helps if you read what people have written not what you think they have written.

Castiel · 15 May 2012 at 18:01

dirtychinchilla said:
If you go to the mainstream supermarkets I definitely agree with you, but here in Leeds, if you go to any of the Asian supermarkets everything is substantially cheaper.

I shopped (and still do) at farm markets, bought veg from my neighbours, grew a bit of my own, rarely did I go to the supermarkets.....I live in a market town, so cheap fresh farm produce is common.....however it still is not as cheap as shopping value ranges in Tesco/Aldi etc........

The bottom line is that unless you live with your parents, or in shared multi-occupancy accomodation and have no other commitments, then budgeting on the minimum wage is damned hard.