pump not up to the job always buy bigger and better.. hmmmmn

craarc

craarc

craarc

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really this pump is not up to the job stuff is a bit annoying sometimes

does the pump have to deal with a lot of pressure in a pc ...... nope

depending on position most internal loops are what 3 feet high at most lowest to highest point..

so say 3 feet = 1.6 psi of head. hmmmmmnn add in flow restrictions and resistance... even if you double it (which it no way would) that 3 psi give or take or rounding it 6 feet of head pressure...that would be if the pump was at its lowest point in the loop and in an open system..

as long as the flow rate of the pump moves enough water through the system in l/min

and you have adequate volume of water ( longer time to ambient). and turbulance..

is all that matters. isnt it....?


im sure people get over sold on pumps when a ek 2.2 400l/hr job would do the job in a low resistance high volume system (volume is the key)

does head pressure of the pump matter when its not having to pump up hill and you have a low resistance enclosed set up .....? imo nope

give the pump good prime. and away you go

im sure a lot of people go ott on pumps to try and overcome flow restriction and perceived pressure requirements

instead of making the flow rate and turbulance in their systems higher

isnt it higher flow = better cooling

not higher pressure = better cooling

but higher flow is only dependent on tubing size (per given pump flowrate)

1 open a hose pipe up and u get high flow but low pressure..

awesome cooling for a pc

2 close the hose pipe as in make it a nozzle put your finger over the end making it high pressure = low flow and bad for pc cooling.

but so many people talk of high flow systems with restrictive flow and small bore tubing..

so can we have a 25mm id cooling block and a 25mm id pipe system please

with larger fittings than 1/4 bsp (19mm) as the little pumps we have will be more than be capable if we open up the flow rates but also introduce turbulance. (in an enclosed system which is what we have)

making sure ofc that cooling blocks have as much surface area as possible with flow rates that can cater for large bore tubing..

anyone going down that root or am i asking to much...?

im sure its easy to do if we had higher flow blocks .... any development in these areas ??

seems people say buy a bigger output pump.. but it would be better to buy bigger bore system.. the pumps we have can handle it but the pipes/blocks/ fittings cant it seems handle the extra low pressure flow.
if we keep the same size pipes fittings blocks all we do buy increasing pump output is increase the pressure in the sytem. we would be better increasing flow rates at a lower pressure.
so its up the bore size not up the pump output. for now the max id (generally) is 16mm /19mm od lets go big bore tubing and fittings..

ala cpu deluge not high pressure spray ..
 
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yup here you go had to climb in behind it this morning.

was balancing on one hand with my phone in other so some pics are a bit blurry but heh ho.. cba to disconnect it all and move stuff today

internal loop is this only res and cpu block



internal loop connects from main systen through the case to external loops like this



then i have two short lengths of tupe 12" each to some QDc`s as i didnt want the QDC`s next to the case so it gives me a more flexible option to connect diferent cooling systems into the internal loop.



from there we go to a externally mounted rad behind my monitor this is the highest part of the loop



this also connects from rad to external res etc through this little lot



external res



heavily modified pump control unit internals which also has a small header tank close to the pump. in the build process with out some of the pipe work it has now



pump unit running showing start up temps the higher temps are the upper alarm settings ofc the lower ones are the actual water and cpu temps in both pics





running temps



system selection switching



i have it set up the way it is as i am a fan of high volume cooling (as in total water volume cooling) and also i can switch between system easily not just pc but also cooling loops etc this way

only problem i have is pulling the sytem out to work on it so i am going to build a desk with a glass top and a hinged lid that i can lift and have all the internals in that as a next project.

i would like to experiment with big pipes (as in 1 inch diameter +) but not sure if there are block and systems that will provide that tbh as yet..
 
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Aren't you demanding quite a lot from a puny 2.2 pump? :)

It's a great pump for small systems, but asking it to go through QDC's and pump quite high to an external rad is a tad harsh?
 
nope not at all hence my original questions in the first post, people would be amazed what can be acheved with small pumps if systems are set up right

as i said before my water is flying around its high flow and turbulent

that why i was saying in the heading do we really need bigger and bigger pumps i dont and i get awesome flow and temp

added

my pump is high in the system only a foot below my rad 1/2lb of head pressure. thats nothing

i was talking about this in another thread saying basically that you dont need your pump near the bottom of the loop as long as the pump has prime is all that matters and you can get high flow rates in low pressure sytem with lots of volume with hardly and pump effort
 
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Awesome, love the build pics, wish I could see more of it, I always love it when people go to extremes in their builds and think outside the box.

Not my cup of tea to have all that external plumbing hanging around all over the place, and sheesh for the sake of saving a few quid on a more powerful pump you certainly made up for it in extra reservoirs (3!), fittings, controllers and monitors. :cool:

Hat off to you craarc love the dedication to the cause, I just don't see how you could apply the theory in an internally mounted rig, with CPU + 2 or 3 GPU + mobo blocks running at 100% for a few hours a day.
 
think my fittings cost more than most pumps tbh. so it wasnt for the sake of saving on a pump really.


was to show that a small pump can do the job as well as that of a larger output one in respect of keeping quite a large volume system going and still have good flow and cooling and that you can run a lot from a small pump if its got good free flow.

the other thing is that i could make it a lot simpler with less water works to keep it neat but all that in the pics is out of sight and behind a desk unit all you see in the pc are the 2 tubes in the first pic and the res

its all going on behind the scenes as it were.

nice thing is i can add in systems to the loop or change them around with a twist of a connector and if it ever does get to much just swap a pump out in the controll housing really easily

eventually i want to build it all into a desk and have lots of water rushing around from resevoir to resevoir sort of a water feature in a desk so this is an experiment to see what i could do untill i build the new desk.
 
Oh I agree mate, don't get me wrong. As said I love to see these sorts of builds.

Its just much more difficult to get that sort of flow release within the constriants of how most people want to do watercooling, esp once you start adding more than a CPU block and single radiator to the mix.

I mean you gotta admit, compared to what most people want/expect yours is a bit of an extreme build right, its difficult to reap the benefits of the principles you are advocating in a normal setup.

Of course its not impossible to get decent gains from trying to remove as much restriction from the loop as possible, ironically in some cases you get better cooling from more restrictive blocks than less restrictive ones, although I've always been suspicious that is more to do with design compromise.

Speaking of restriction.. some interesting new CPU blocks come out recently, the DT 5Noz tested here has half the restriction of any current block. Niiiice :)
 
yes agree there im thinkin of trying just a simple loop to see how it compares

will have a read up on that block in work tomoz looks good tho

i feel a spend coming on lol
 
Going bigger tubing doesn't really improve cooling because your right, ultimately flow rate doesn't make that much difference. Numerous test (Cathar etc) have shown that as long you have 8mm/3/8" at least, going bigger makes little difference, as the decrease in resistance becomes increasingly small as you make the tube bigger for the flow rates in watercooling loops.

Also where you put the pump height wise doesn't make any real difference, as long as it's otherwise between the high point and the low point of the loop - what goes up must come down and vice versa. If you do place the pump either below or above the rest of the loop you are increasing the work it needs to do in terms of head to overcome as it then needs to pump uphill further - even if you place the pump at the top.

Having volume is ultimately just delaying the inevitable, you really need to add a fair of bit of extra water to make it worthwile - my loop takes about 3hours to reach equilibrium at full load and that contains about 2l.
 
Cleeecooo said:
*titters*

What I meant was, does having lots of fluid compensate for a lack of flow by giving the loop more time to reach equilibrium?
Click to expand...
Having low flow/high volume will mean you have a higher delta T between the CPU and the water - but the water will take longer to heat up. So initially you'll have higher temperatures, but the water temperature will then otherwise take longer to heat meaning that at somepoint the low flow loop will be cooler than the high flow, before then becoming hotter again at the end as they both reach equilibrium.

Edit: A picture is worth a thousand words:

flows.jpg
 
Blue is low volume, high flow, red is high volume low flow.

Edit: Should really mention that adding volume doesn't decrease flow unless you add ridiculous amounts of tubing, so it's a very hypothetical case.
 
pretty much the idea was to have lots of volume as i like the idea of multiple resevoirs

i would like 3 or 4 maybe more connected in a series with water cascading at different levels into the next and so on sort of a water feature. or with multiple loops and colored fluids going different directions if you can imagine that all external from the main case so a water fall effect as a visual.

however main purpose of the thread was to show that sometimes even with a lot of volume and loads of pipework that even a small pump can do a fair bit. depending on where it is and head pressure etc and that im sure a lot of people get over sold on pumps.

as shown i have a lot of pipe and fittings but still get really good flow and cooling with what is considered a baby pump

seems lots of threads people say get a bigger pump bigger pump all the time and i dont think thats always what is needed. it seems like its get more power as a fix for other areas that could do the trick.

ok a larger pump with higher head capacity and more flow is better but aint always needed especially in our systems where max head is like a couple psi at max it only increases approx 1/2lb per foot in height, so unless you have massive restrictions your not going to make that much difference.

i think atm that 1/2 as said above is pretty much the largest practicle hose diameter and that going above that wouldnt help that much but i reckon that is because our fittings and block are only big enough to take 1/4bsp fittings. if for instance there was a block with 1" diameter fittings and we had 1" diameter intake and discharge pumps and tubing we could get better performance from going bigger. not only because of the higher volume but flow.

not sure its needed but i think it would be a nice looking set up with huge 1" diameter tubes.

what i want to do is build a pc in a desktop where the pc is in effect the desktop 6" or so deep and have a horizontal water cooling system running around the sides so it will be a minimal pressure/ head system as it will only basically have 1/4lb of head pressure but large bore high flow tubing

will try and make a drawing of the design im thinking of while at work when i get a few mins spare to show what i mean .

probably going to buy a large pump at end of month to see if i can get like a large water fall effect from a water tank that could sit behind a desk or be desk mounted and have the header tank as 2 sheets of perspex with a small gap so water will flow up between them and cascade over into the pump

i just like fiddling with stuff.


what im after is high volume with high flow, (atm with a baby pump) not low volume, high flow, or high volume low flow
and eventually make it a sort of water feature a fair bit of work on ideas yet tho
 
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