Is it just me...

For me what was the ethos of a 'hot hatch' has moved away from hatch backs into other areas like the MX5 & BRZ, something thats light with sorted handling and cheap to buy and run.

Look at the new Subaru BRZ/Toyota GT86 everyone is slating it for having 'only' 200bhp in a light (by modern standards) rwd low cog body...

I don't want a FWD car with the same BHP as high end performance cars a few years ago, which costs 30k+ and 200quid a corner in tyres and weighs over a ton and a half... To me it just doesn't seem fun anymore..
 
andicole0 said:
They must have changed the tests then, anyway there's pretty much nothing on the road that will run efficiently on the road at 40mph. Certainly anything fairly modern with lots of gears is going to struggle to run in top gear at that speed. My cars don't.

Andi.
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A little poking around suggests we've been using the current tests for about 12 years now :p
 
Old hot hatches aren't even very fast compared to modern ones, they just feel fast because the car has less grip and you're part of the drive because you're more connected. 7-second 0-60 was pretty swift even as recently as Y2K, with 6-second 0-60 reserved for bigger more powerful sports cars. Many hot hatches are well in the sixes and will leave a lot of yesteryear supercars standing.

Kenai said:
As far as I can see, there isn't a single point on the current tests where a car is sat at 56mph, merely a couple of points where it passes through 56mph whilst accelerating and decelerating to and from 75mph.
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Out of interest, what speed is held for the test? Or is there no constant speed part of the test?
 
the new golf gti has twice the power of my old gti. will it be twice the fun though ?

bet its more than twice as safe though... which i assume is the main reason people buy hothatches , because they want a bit of fun but they also dont want their family to die in it
 
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Jonny69 said:
Out of interest, what speed is held for the test? Or is there no constant speed part of the test?
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No real constant speed:

2z3ymn8.jpg


That is the combined cycle - the first repeated sections are the urban cycle and the last section is the extra-urban cycle AFAIK.

Makes it blindingly obvious why stop start tech vehicles attain such wonderful economy figures.
 
sovietspybob said:
For me what was the ethos of a 'hot hatch' has moved away from hatch backs into other areas like the MX5 & BRZ, something thats light with sorted handling and cheap to buy and run.

Look at the new Subaru BRZ/Toyota GT86 everyone is slating it for having 'only' 200bhp in a light (by modern standards) rwd low cog body...

I don't want a FWD car with the same BHP as high end performance cars a few years ago, which costs 30k+ and 200quid a corner in tyres and weighs over a ton and a half... To me it just doesn't seem fun anymore..
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Modern HH's are cheap to buy, but arent really cheap to run, tyres for a Focus ST are prob just as expensive for BMW/AUDI/MERC now, for me HH's were about fun and performance but on a budget, day to day cheap to run etc.

That said, we still have fun small cars tho, the class below the Focus sector still has some fun cars.
 
Never had any interest in a hot hatch, since I had my rwd s2000, the one with no TC lol, i would never have a non rwd car (would take 4wd) for a fun car. I drove that car in the winter to work and back up roads and hills inches deep with snow (bit of an issue when it turns to ice but a challenge!) never lost complete control, obviously sliding about all over the place

Hot hatches are too boring after owning that car. 130-180bhp with some torque down the bottom for getting off of traffic lights is all I want. Which is useful.

Growing up in the countryside I'm all about corners, where as a mate I have is all about convoy at high speed on motorway which interests me 0%. Nothing like the back end stepping out on a corner without any tc trying to fight it
 
It does seem like there's a bit of an arms race on BHP wise.

It also seems like a lot of these new "big numbers" hot hatches are getting marked down by car journos for steering feel.

You may well have a point.

I'll be interested to see if Renault start going for bigger numbers from the Clio.
 
Horse Pop said:
It does seem like there's a bit of an arms race on BHP wise.

It also seems like a lot of these new "big numbers" hot hatches are getting marked down by car journos for steering feel.

You may well have a point.

I'll be interested to see if Renault start going for bigger numbers from the Clio.
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According to something I think I read on Autoexpress/Autocar the new civic type r isn't going to have a belly load of power either.

It is all about numbers and bragging rights. It's such a shame.
 
Don't see it as an issue really, looking back at the escort cosworth this was over 220bhp as standard (and much more open to modification). So power for the hot hatches, at top end of the "hot range" hasn't really grown.

What has changed is the availability of the hot hatch, with more people buying them because they aren't all crazy bodykits and wild spoilers which completely change the cars.
 
Morba said:
Don't see it as an issue really, looking back at the escort cosworth this was over 220bhp as standard (and much more open to modification). So power for the hot hatches, at top end of the "hot range" hasn't really grown.

What has changed is the availability of the hot hatch, with more people buying them because they aren't all crazy bodykits and wild spoilers which completely change the cars.
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Wasn't this 4 wheel drive?
 
In 1987, Road & Track published a test summary that shows the 1988 Honda Prelude 2.0Si 4WS outperforming every car of that year on the Slalom, including all Lamborghinis, Ferraris, and Porsches. It went through the slalom at 65.5 mph (105.4 km/h), an amazing result for the time. For reference, the 1988 Corvette took the same course at 64.9 mph (104.4 km/h).
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That car had 135bhp and amazing handling, I owned the 4WS version of the 5th gen (they have 186-220bhp depending on model) and never found anything it couldn't keep up with on the twistys.

Power isn't unimportant but in the UK I think handling is just as relevant unless your just buying the car to brag about the bhp down the pub.
 
I think its almost like there is a sub genre of Mega hatches these days though, Occupied by the likes of the RS3, Focus RS mk 2 and the Megane 275.
When you think that in 1997 the "top dog" had 167hp... These days they are all around 300hp.
I dont think 200hp is too much though, 200hp now is like 160 in the 90's due to the weight difference.
the same can be said of most cars these days though:
R33/34 GTR <330hp vs the GTR (r35) 545hp
old M5 v8 394 hp vs todays M5 560hp
 
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I'm sure the cossie was being sold into 97, that had ~220bhp. Which hatch are you thinking of that was top dog and only 167 bhp?
 
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