E-petition against UK online monitoring law

Moses said:
Right, so the emotive thing about terrorist victims was just baseless bluster? Great.

How can you even say that (the new bit I've just quoted)? :o

This could help then see who suspected terrorists are in contact with, to check people out. It'd make it easier to map out networks, no? And I really wouldn't care if some terrorist sent me an email, and that led to MI5 looking at my account and seeing I watch trashy TV, at times...

That's one example.
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So you don't care if you privacy is invaded?
I think that every 7/7 victim would be upset with what the government is doing, they are effectively trying to pass laws because of their deaths.

DAnDan said:
So, what are you proposing that the government actually intends to do with the bill if it should pass? How do you know it's not for terrorism?
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Simple logic that it's not for terrorism.
There is technology in the hands of anyone that can bypass these surveillance proposals. Any terrorist network of course will use this to their full advantage.
I mean, all it actually needs is a VPN to completely stop this technology. It's as simple as that.
 
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DAnDan said:
Not really. Show me any evidence that they have plans to use this for something that will negatively impact the life of the every day person, and I'll sign.
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I dont care if you sign, i dont even care for the petition.

I evidence is already clear, the police abused the Stop and Search protocols for one, let alone the current climate of media corruption (though i imagine the inquiries are no doubt making any nasty officer think twice about it) and there are numerous things within current law, that i could see this being abused.
 
KNiVES said:
Waiting for obligatory 'I don't do anything wrong so I don't mind it' comment from the resident ocuk morons.
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Agreed. Didn't take long neither. See below.

Moses said:
I'm in that camp... but I don't consider myself to be a moron - why it's a moronic point of view?
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Because it ignore the one simple fact: Governments define what is wrong. One day *boom* your perfectly legal activity is no longer so.

What's worse is how these laws are trumpeted as being 'to protect us against whatever the current bogeyman is' or 'for the good of the children'. It's insidious.

Did you know a lot of crime happens in the home? Perhaps we should install CCTV in everybody's home. After all if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide.
 
StriderX said:
I dont care if you sign, i dont even care for the petition.

I evidence is already clear, the police abused the Stop and Search protocols for one, let alone the current climate of media corruption (though i imagine the inquiries are no doubt making any nasty officer think twice about it) and there are numerous things within current law, that i could see this being abused.
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And councils abused RIPA to spy on people walking their dogs to see if they fouled. Seriously does nobody pay attention. Abuse of power has been systemic.
 
Moses said:
I value my privacy, of course. However, I don't think that this would impinge on it enough to outweigh the potential benefits of the move. I literally don't care if the state know what websites I go on, and who I communicate with (NB. they get that information, they don't get the content of the messages). CCTV in my house = bad. Then knowing I watch The Apprentice = I couldn't care less.
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Hmm, what about my concerns? What if someone takes a look at all their friends internet histories and lets something slip some night when he's had a drink? Do you agree that just going to the websites is nearly the the same as content?
 
Moses said:
Why speak for the dead and injured? I'd take your point, if you could demonstrate that victims, or a body representing them, had said as much... but you haven't. Perhaps the victims wold be upset with you misrepresenting their views, or at least presenting baseless guesses as to what they'd think of this... :o

I value my privacy, of course. However, I don't think that this would impinge on it enough to outweigh the potential benefits of the move. I literally don't care if the state know what websites I go on, and who I communicate with (NB. they get that information, they don't get the content of the messages). CCTV in my house = bad. Then knowing I watch The Apprentice = I couldn't care less.
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All I see is massive potential for misuse and a complete invasion of privacy.
Say I visit here, the government will now know that I probably like computers, it's the same with most websites. They can very easily build up a profile of you. And anyway it still absoulately does nothing as people who don't want to be caught, won't be caught.
 
Moses said:
I value my privacy, of course. However, I don't think that this would impinge on it enough to outweigh the potential benefits of the move. I literally don't care if the state know what websites I go on, and who I communicate with (NB. they get that information, they don't get the content of the messages). CCTV in my house = bad. Then knowing I watch The Apprentice = I couldn't care less.
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it has no benefit. It's easily bypassed by any criminal with half a brain. Also you cannot separate header/destination from content. That's how the Internet works. You examine the packets you get everything.

You may well be happy with the Government looking at your private web and Internet history but I do. That's not their remit. They can keep their noses out of my private life and I'm not buying the crappy protection from 'terroists' or 'pedophiles' - that excuse has long worn thin.
 
Moses said:
OH NOES!!!1!twelve!1!!
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The problem is that:

1. Hackers could gain access.
2. Mistakes happen. The Police may think you've done something wrong due to circumstantial evidence. They can then dig into your online browsing history, who you've been mailing, etc. I'd rather not be arrested just because malware sent a pop-up for some random pharma drug or something come on my screen. Now obviously that's not going to happen because I'd run security software but still, more info means more likely misinterpretation.
 
It's not so much Big Brother I'm worried about. I think that's a paranoid delusion. I'm worried about normal people abusing their access. I deal with the odd celebrity, and it's so very tempting to say something innocuous about their finances, but I have to keep myself in check. I know colleagues have looked at other colleagues finances, or discussed them with other people, and while there are controls in place, without them I'm certain some of my colleagues would know everything about me financially.

I feel the same about this as I do with the police being able to access mobile phone data, I don't disagree that the powers should exist, I just don't trust human nature and without careful access control, and logging then it will be abused.
 
Moses, go and see what VPN data looks like. It doesn't reveal anything.
It took years to catch the lulsec guys because they were using similar stuff, and that was only because they broke into it.
And there are still loads not caught, and the police know they existed in the fitst place.
 
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Moses said:
Jesus wept, more of these ridiculous straw men. I dealt with the last paragraph, in the previous thread I linked to. It's just childish. You're above that, surely?

Governments define what is wrong, but we effectively rule who governs :confused:.
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Perhaps in fairyland on mount delusion.

We may rule them, but society is too dumb to realise that it's the power-base.

Which leads to your almighty Oligarchy wedging its fat ass into the system, not that i really care, i accept the reality we live in.
 
Moses said:
Jesus wept, more of these ridiculous straw men. I dealt with the last paragraph, in the previous thread I linked to. It's just childish. You're above that, surely?

Governments define what is wrong, but we effectively rule who governs :confused:.
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You need to look at the history of the 20th century. Should give plenty of clues about how quickly you can go from benign to totalitarian government.

So when are you having the CCTV installed? Seriously if you have nothing to hide...
 
Wouldn't it be great if someone hacked you connection and pulled off lots of e-crimes and then you got sent down for it.
Also how will they track all these PAYG mobile dongle and wifi criminals?
 
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This information is mostly accessible with a warrant anyway depending on the ISPs logging policy.

Infact, most people are probably using an ISP who already keeps these kind of logs ALREADY and shares it without warranted authority.

Just will see a rise in UK based VPN services if this goes through.
 
There's a reassuring dose of persecution complex going on in the thread. Pro-tip : if you're trying to get people onboard with an idea it's probably not a great look to be overly dramatic. And take that tinfoil hat off, it doesn't suit you at all.
 
In fact, this thread needs the Yes, Minister clip about signing petitions. It'll show you lot how your heads work.

Skip to 50 seconds if you like.

 
No the method didn't get cracked, Tobias made a mistake by not logging in with tor iirc then he was persuaded by the US government to work for them to get details.
I am saying that if someone didn't want to be caught it would be very trivial to bypass this monitoring.

This legislation may catch most criminals out but for the well planned, it doesn't do anything. Nothing to do with terrorism imo.
 
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