Jimmy Carr overcome by grief

[Morba]

This line of reasoning is crazy. He's paid the amount of tax he was required to.

We can't be angry at him for not paying more unless we believe government taxation levels should be higher for everyone. Put your petty jealousy aside, there's no moral argument here.

This tbh.

 

[Morba]

In the large part, you're right. However, any contractor earning perhaps more than £60k a year could do what Carr did with net benefit.

a) Incorporate in Jersey
b) Hire an accountant to manage the company (there are lots)
c) Receive loans from the company
d) The company writes off the loans

It really isn't that expensive to manage.

And this.
They need to think very carefully about closing some of these loop holes as normal people could be affected by it.

 

[Danthus]

Costs the economy a lot less than aggressive tax avoidance too. Yet of course is the bigger problem because it's poor people doing it.

What does Jimmy Carr take from the State?

 

[Hatter The Mad]

A little bit of tax avoidance.

So is everyone's (tax deductions, ISAs, first time buyer capital gains exemption)?

 

[GravyMonster]

This line of reasoning is crazy. He's paid the amount of tax he was required to.

We can't be angry at him for not paying more unless we believe government taxation levels should be higher for everyone. Put your petty jealousy aside, there's no moral argument here.

But where's your stupidity and jealousy? Where's your knee jerk reaction to someone who's worked hard to make a success of himself and has paid the amount of tax required of him by law? There is far too much sense in your post for my liking.

 

[Morba]

What does Jimmy Carr take from the State?

Compared to what he gives to the state...
A man performing on a stage is not only earning money for himself, there are businesses which are run because of performers, staff hired, products and merchandise purchased. All of which means taxation of some kind going to the state.

So what if he pays 1% (not checked on how much he officially declared as earnings) but it is likely to be more than most people earn gross a year.

 

[cu3ed]

Whilst fair enough its legal via some loop holes, it does grate me he has that smug, "better than them" look when he makes jokes of Tax nature, then looks smug git after it, when he knows fine well what he is doing with his own money.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

But where's your stupidity, your knee jerk reaction to someone who's worked hard to make a success of himself? There is far too much sense in your post for my liking.

You have to admit that incorporating a company in another tax domain for the purpose of making loans to yourself to purposely default on those loans to write the loans off yourself isn't exactly in the spirit of good faith, is it?

Especially when most gubbins in the country is stuck paying higher tax rates at source.

If you're going to allow loopholes to be exploited, let everyone exploit them.

 

[Danthus]

You have to admit that incorporating a company in another tax domain for the purpose of making loans to yourself to purposely default on those loans to write the loans off yourself isn't exactly in the spirit of good faith, is it?

Especially when most gubbins in the country is stuck paying higher tax rates at source.

If you're going to allow loopholes to be exploited, let everyone exploit them.

Everyone can.

 

[GravyMonster]

My wife is an accountant. What Carr does is the tip of the iceberg for what most clients of her company get up to to avoid tax - all completely legally of course.

 

[boxman2000]

What everyone has to understand is almost all these schemes are created by and for UK residents – media pointing fingers at the ‘evil and immoral’ Offshore Finance industry need to cast their accusing eyes at The City first!

Morality aside a second, these schemes should all (I say should) be 100% legal - if they are not then they are in BIG trouble. I personally don’t agree with these schemes BUT also think a 50% tax rate is unbelievably dumb by the government.

If there was a flat 10% income tax rate (or even 20%) that everyone paid honestly, I’m certain there would be far more money coming in than at present!

I am employed by the Offshore Finance Industry and anyone who has had any dealings in this area can testify that it is not as lucrative as people like to think and that we (generally) are not evil personified! The legislation and regulation here is absolutely unbelievable and Guernsey, Jersey and Isle of Man are definitely in the top 5% of best regulated finance centres in the world, maybe higher.

Offshore finance started off more for estate planning (capital gains etc) rather than funneling off salaries offshore and financing lifestyle via loans. There are far more complex schemes than K2 and this is not even 1% of the Offshore Business.

The ironic thing about all this is:
* The Royal Family has a vast amount of their wealth offshore
* Formula 1 drivers past and present seem to favour using a particular part-bailed out UK bank
* Virtually all professional footballers and managers use schemes similar to the K2
* Top golfers and other sports professionals have money offshore
* Members of the government and relatives hold property and run schemes through Offshore centres

Infact, government officials are about the worst out there by putting their and staff salaries into a company to get certain tax breaks.

Chasing after Jimmy Carr is a bit of an irrelevance in the grand scheme of things – there are much bigger earners out there using these legal schemes.

 

[stockhausen]

... That is all that he has done here, paid what is required, no extra. He has abided by the law. ...

Today's apology by Jimmy Carr would appear to suggest that he doesn't entirely agree with your heart-warming support of his tax-dodging

I am not aware that anyone has suggested that Jimmy Car has done anything illegal, just immoral . . . according to our Dear Leader . . . who is of course in no position to pontificate, even if he is in the ideal position to do something about this selfish, anti-social behaviour.


I am interested to see that this story was broken by the Times - I wonder whether Jimmy Carr has said anything critical about the Murdoch Media Mafia or News Corp.


Incidentally, I notice that Danny Alexander attacked the rich who use tax loopholes to reduce their rate of income tax, describing them as the 'moral equivalent of benefit cheats'.

Well, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT YOU FREELOADING MORON!

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Everyone can.

Maybe in OldCoal's fantasy land of implausibility.

But in reality, the majority of people in this country cannot contract themselves out to a sufficient number of different entities (so to pass IR35) and to do what Carr did. The majority of people in this country have no choice but to receive salary through the PAYE system.

 

[boxman2000]

Today's apology by Jimmy Carr would appear to suggest that he doesn't entirely agree with your heart-warming support of his tax-dodging

Tax avoidance = legal
Tax evasion = illegal

Some terrible misinformation on this thread.

Are they as bad as each other? Legally, no. Morally, most definitely IMO.

 

[shoes]

Today's apology by Jimmy Carr would appear to suggest that he doesn't entirely agree with your heart-warming support of his tax-dodging

Or he has a decent PR man

 

[JAzz]

If he isn't doing anything illegal I don't see the problem.

 

[GravyMonster]

If he isn't doing anything illegal I don't see the problem.

Exactly. If it's 'morally wrong' to reduce your tax burden, the tighten the loop holes.

But we all know that the government will never do that because most MPs use them themselves, and are backed by board members of large coprorations, who also use offshore finance for similar ends.

 

[Morba]

Maybe in OldCoal's fantasy land of implausibility.

But in reality, the majority of people in this country cannot contract themselves out to a sufficient number of different entities (so to pass IR35) and to do what Carr did. The majority of people in this country have no choice but to receive salary through the PAYE system.

In reality, every one can. If you choose a position that is PAYE, or caught in IR35 as a contractor then that is your choice. You can choose, should you wish, to have a job where you can take advantage of these loopholes.

 

[Johnnytoxic]

Issuing an apology for doing something legal ??

Any ONE of us would do the same if advised they could save money legally.

Now the PR guy would probably say different but I would say, "Deal with it, I'm not doing anything illegal. It's up to Cameron and all his government expenses fraud buddies to change it".

 

[Efour]

Close some loop holes, make the system far more transparent.

No government will ever do it cos its electoral suicide.

I don't have a major issue with individuals tax avoiding/evading, whatever, as the amounts are often trivial but corporation's setting up in multiple countries and moving assets and money around purely to fiddle tax is underhand.