Supermarkets and Dairy Farmers

Danthus · 23 Jul 2012 at 18:16

Greebo said:
Asda has it for 4 pints for under a quid atm..........

i would be amazed if the price of milk on the shelf differs by more than a penny in any of the supermarkets.

postbox · 23 Jul 2012 at 18:39

Freakbro said:
It's not just the farmers in trouble with this, though they do have it rough. Supermarkets have got such a strangle hold on the supply of food to the country, they are in the unusual position that they dictate what price they will pay to their suppliers.

Don't like it? Tough...they will get it from someone else. Suppliers need the access to the market the supermarkets offer.

Also, all the BOGOFs you see, it's not the supermarket who takes the hit on that, they tell the supplier they are selling X item on a BOGOF and the supplier takes the hit.

Also, for every complaint they receive (Like I complained about their **** bags always splitting) is an automatic £15 fine to the supplier.

They then usually comeback for a seasonal retrospective turnover discount too..They have created a very tight cut throat world for food producers (I have a couple of friends who work in the food industry and supply, Tesco, Sainsburies, Waitrose etc)

Then think about how much food has increased over the last 18 months....due to the market speculation on commodities, the supplier doesn't see any of this.

I would love to give a detailed response but I'm on my phone. I actually do work along aside all the major retailers and I'm afraid a lot of what you have mentioned is simply not true.
Supermarkets do take the hit on many products because it's an east way of getting the consumer through the door, milk and bread included.

Btone · 23 Jul 2012 at 19:07

how about we remove all the dam red tape that stop farmers

my land can support 1.5 cows per acre but some dam towney Environmentalist says i can only have .8 of a cow per acre

i want to build a new milking plant but some ******* of a planner says no i cant build on my own land and i need to convert building that are 80 years old, because people dont want to see big sheds when they out on there Sunday drive

i want to make my fields bigger so modern machines can use them better but again that dam towney Environmentalist says no we need all them hedges for the birds

i like to buy in cheap corn from the usa but i cant because there a .001% it might have some GM corn in it and we all know (becasue the Environmentalist told us) if we eat it our kids will turn into some crazy mutant

and don't start me about all the pointless paperwork with the only purpose of keeping civil servants in work

godinman · 23 Jul 2012 at 19:14

RationalGaze said:
I think the price needs to go up anyway, the farmers deserve a good return for all their hard work.

This, only thick chavs would moan, everyone else would see the sense in spending an extra 20p a week to keep a good quality, humane supply of milk.

SpeedFreak · 23 Jul 2012 at 19:26

As a few others have posted, I personally think milk is cheap. I also think that we have never had it so good in terms of the price of food relative to average income (ok, maybe 4 years ago it was a bit better)

Freakbro · 23 Jul 2012 at 19:34

postbox said:
I would love to give a detailed response but I'm on my phone. I actually do work along aside all the major retailers and I'm afraid a lot of what you have mentioned is simply not true.
Supermarkets do take the hit on many products because it's an east way of getting the consumer through the door, milk and bread included.

Oh, I don't dispute supermarkets still run their own loss leaders, but what I posted was the experience from two friends who have worked in the industry for 20 yrs.

Danthus · 23 Jul 2012 at 19:36

postbox said:
I would love to give a detailed response but I'm on my phone. I actually do work along aside all the major retailers and I'm afraid a lot of what you have mentioned is simply not true.
Supermarkets do take the hit on many products because it's an east way of getting the consumer through the door, milk and bread included.

Supermarkets running loss leaders isn't them taking a hit.

Greebo · 23 Jul 2012 at 19:39

OldCoals said:
i would be amazed if the price of milk on the shelf differs by more than a penny in any of the supermarkets.

You#d be wrong. They has been a supermarket milk price war going on recently (and I don;t know why, after all if you you need 4 pints, you pick up 4 pints and it wouldn;t make me go to one supermarket over another)

Websites have weekly "stupid" milk price watch. Here's today

ASDA - 4 pints for £1 - reduced from £1.18 on the day they confirmed the 1ppl bonus would be increased to 3ppl.

Morrisons - 4 pints for 98p – Morrisons are defiant and ignoring farmer protests.

A report has come in of Iceland in Whitchurch reportedly selling 4 pints for 87p!

Esso Garage, Royal Wootton Bassett - I think one of our readers may have discovered the highest priced litre of milk which was purchased by him this morning from the Esso Garage at Royal Wootton Bassett. The milk carton is one litre and cost an amazing £1.18 per litre leaving those between the farm gate and the customer with a 97 pence mark up, and the farmer with a 5 pence per litre loss.

Greebo · 23 Jul 2012 at 19:47

Oh and in case anybody thinks it's the processors making the profits, Dairycrest, one of the biggest in the industry made a loss on their liquid (milk) division last year.

So the less than cost price they are paying the farmer plus their costs in collecting it, processing it, bottling it and delivering it to Tescos, Asda etc is more than what they charge them (always has been but the as I said before, the cream extracted sold for a fortune and offset the loss leading milk supply business.

Danthus · 23 Jul 2012 at 19:48

I based what I said on seeing 2 x 4 pint bottles for £3 at Tesco, Morrisons, Asda and Sainsburys.

Greebo · 23 Jul 2012 at 19:55

OldCoals said:
I based what I said on seeing 2 x 4 pint bottles for £3 at Tesco, Morrisons, Asda and Sainsburys.

It can look like they are all following suit and matching each other until one has an offer. This week it's Asda with 4 pints for a quid and Morrisons for less than a quid. Much better deal than buying 8 pints for £3 from Tesco and Sainsburys (and who need 8 pints unless you are a big family). Asda and Morrisions are some of the worst payers to the farmes paying up to 5p a litre less than Tesco and Sainsbury's.

Danthus · 23 Jul 2012 at 19:58

Actually thinking about it that was organic milk too.

postbox · 23 Jul 2012 at 20:00

OldCoals said:
Supermarkets running loss leaders isn't them taking a hit.

Thanks I'm fully aware how pricing works in supermarkets. I understand they don't actually lose money, but it is a very effective tactic to get people through the door. Very few visit the big supermarkets purely to just buy the deals. I was only pulling it up as it was too much of a sweeping statement. there may be some cases where that happens but saying it for all products is not true. I have worked for pork farms, mullers, spar complaints not to mention in regular talks with QA, buyers, product testers from all UK supermarkets. It's what I does.

dowie · 23 Jul 2012 at 20:09

Glaucus said:
Most things are clearly price fixed yet nothing done.

Better pic with prices

Well if its actually causing a loss to produce it then stop supplying it... why keep burning money. I'd be a bit skeptical of those figures tbh... if you're losing 16% for every batch of milk you supply then you'd very rapidly not have a business at all and all dairy farming would cease to exist - that's not actually happening though.

spoffle · 23 Jul 2012 at 20:17

SpeedFreak said:
As a few others have posted, I personally think milk is cheap. I also think that we have never had it so good in terms of the price of food relative to average income (ok, maybe 4 years ago it was a bit better)

I don't think food is expensive either. It's pretty cheap, I can make a lot of good food with good quality ingredients for not much money.

I think the people who do think food is very expensive are buying a lot of ready meals, frozen stuff like frozen pies, lasagne, or top brand stuff like expensive beans, expensive spaghetti, rice (microwave rice is such a rip off).

I tend to avoid top brand stuff anyway since you really are just paying for the packaging. Spagghetti is pretty bad for that, you can get it for 20p for 500g but I see people paying £1 for that and it's exactly the same stuff.

What a waste! A few months ago I actually bought 12KG of spaghetti from Tesco for about £4 as they had some big special on, and since I regularly eat it and it keeps for like ever, it was a great offer.

Amp34 · 23 Jul 2012 at 20:26

Btone said:
how about we remove all the dam red tape that stop farmers

my land can support 1.5 cows per acre but some dam towney Environmentalist says i can only have .8 of a cow per acre

i want to build a new milking plant but some ******* of a planner says no i cant build on my own land and i need to convert building that are 80 years old, because people dont want to see big sheds when they out on there Sunday drive

i want to make my fields bigger so modern machines can use them better but again that dam towney Environmentalist says no we need all them hedges for the birds

i like to buy in cheap corn from the usa but i cant because there a .001% it might have some GM corn in it and we all know (becasue the Environmentalist told us) if we eat it our kids will turn into some crazy mutant

and don't start me about all the pointless paperwork with the only purpose of keeping civil servants in work

Wow I hope most farmers aren't like you... While I agree a couple of those things on that list are a little silly several certainly aren't. You are a farmer, you have to coexist with the wildlife in this country, if nothing else because it helps you in the long run...

dowie said:
Well if its actually causing a loss to produce it then stop supplying it... why keep burning money. I'd be a bit skeptical of those figures tbh... if you're losing 16% for every batch of milk you supply then you'd very rapidly not have a business at all and all dairy farming would cease to exist - that's not actually happening though.

They are... Seen the figures of the drastic cut in gary farmers over the last few years...? It's not just dairy farmers either as has already been mentioned. Things like soft fruits and wheat. If the farmer doesn't sell at that price they may not be able to sell at all...

Amp34 · 23 Jul 2012 at 20:28

spoffle said:
I don't think food is expensive either. It's pretty cheap, I can make a lot of good food with good quality ingredients for not much money.

I think the people who do think food is very expensive are buying a lot of ready meals, frozen stuff like frozen pies, lasagne, or top brand stuff like expensive beans, expensive spaghetti, rice (microwave rice is such a rip off).

I tend to avoid top brand stuff anyway since you really are just paying for the packaging. Spagghetti is pretty bad for that, you can get it for 20p for 500g but I see people paying £1 for that and it's exactly the same stuff.

What a waste! A few months ago I actually bought 12KG of spaghetti from Tesco for about £4 as they had some big special on, and since I regularly eat it and it keeps for like ever, it was a great offer.

And that Tesco own brand spaghetti may in fact be why farmers are losing money...

I'd also argue that a significant amount of ready meals and processed food is cheaper than proper fresh food. Certainly anything with meat in, unless of course you're one of those people that buy 5kg of frozen chicken at a time..?

OpenToSuggestions · 23 Jul 2012 at 20:31

Is there such thing as a poor farmer?
Some family friends were farmers and the same year he moaned that farmers were hard up he bought a brand new JCB Backhoe loader (Circa £35,000) and hid daughter a horse.
If the milk prices are really that bad then use your farm for something else rather than cows for milk.

Greebo · 23 Jul 2012 at 20:31

dowie said:
Well if its actually causing a loss to produce it then stop supplying it... why keep burning money. I'd be a bit skeptical of those figures tbh... if you're losing 16% for every batch of milk you supply then you'd very rapidly not have a business at all and all dairy farming would cease to exist - that's not actually happening though.

They are though. You hold on for a while and hope that prices will go back up to a level which means you make money.

My father was a farmer and I saw him mortgage the family farm which had been in the family for generations holding up the loss year after year in the hope that it would turn a corner. In the end he packed in and sold his farmhouse to a rich accountant from down south for £500k.

So once a large percentage of dairy farmers have packed in and gone bust and milk goes up 5p per litre, will shoppers be bothered? No. So why not pay that 5p now and stop hundreds of farms going bankrupt?

spoffle · 23 Jul 2012 at 20:38

Amp34 said:
And that Tesco own brand spaghetti may in fact be why farmers are losing money...

Hardly, it's just flour and water and mostly imported.

I'd also argue that a significant amount of ready meals and processed food is cheaper than proper fresh food. Certainly anything with meat in, unless of course you're one of those people that buy 5kg of frozen chicken at a time..?

You might be looking at the cheapest of the cheap farmfoods type of stuff?

But no I cook everything with fresh food and I buy all my meat from a local butchers and freeze it myself.