Tax Avoidance: Are they all at it ?

Fr0dders · 24 Jul 2012 at 12:47

First thing i thought of when the Jimmy Carr news broke, was a question of "why is this news. Surely everybody knows that all the TV presenters, Footballers, contracters and god knows who else are all at it"

And sure enough here we are :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-tactics-presenters-paid-books.html#comments

Yes its a Daily Fail rant, but how many more revelations are we going to have before we realize they are all at it ?

robgmun · 24 Jul 2012 at 12:49

if you could do it, wouldn't you? No? Liar!!

Danthus · 24 Jul 2012 at 12:49

Everyone would avoid paying tax if they could or knew how to!

Mickie · 24 Jul 2012 at 12:51

is this a good enough reason to tell the bbc to stuff their tv licence up their arse?

i think so

Mark A · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:00

So will something be done about this now or is it all legal?

I don't know why people always stick up for these celebs that dodge tax :rolleyes:

.

scorza · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:25

robgmun said:
if you could do it, wouldn't you? No? Liar!!

Not everyone is as morally bankrupt as the tax avoiders - James Dyson and JK Rowling certainly could avoid taxes if they wanted to, but have chosen not to: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...uding-james-dyson-and-jk-rowling-7873607.html

Floogie · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:33

OldCoals said:
Everyone would avoid paying tax if they could or knew how to!

robgmun said:
if you could do it, wouldn't you? No? Liar!!

That's an irrelevance. The point is that adequate measures should be put in place so that:

a) people aren't tempted because they have no longer got the chance to avoid

b) people aren't tempted because they know they'll get caught

Deleted member 77746 · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:37

The whole world is pretty much after saving money.

Moothead2 · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:43

scorza said:
Not everyone is as morally bankrupt as the tax avoiders - James Dyson and JK Rowling certainly could avoid taxes if they wanted to, but have chosen not to: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...uding-james-dyson-and-jk-rowling-7873607.html

To be fair, most of the people who are avoiding tax are mid level millionaires if that. Those two are Billionaires and so can still easily sustain their lifestyle without having to avoid the tax man. Not saying it's right but it's hard to compare them.

kinobestew123 · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:44

scorza said:
Not everyone is as morally bankrupt as the tax avoiders - James Dyson and JK Rowling certainly could avoid taxes if they wanted to, but have chosen not to: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...uding-james-dyson-and-jk-rowling-7873607.html

It's partly a publicity stunt beacuse tax avoidance is in the limelight and also, as the article states, they have other reasons for paying more tax (they want to help support the country), nothing to do with taking a moral highground.

What these celebrities are doing is not illegal at all. Some people are just upset (and frankly jealous that they can't do the same) and so are calling it immoral and trying to have it stopped. Some people perceive the situation that they have to pay more tax as a result of celebrities avoiding tax.

People have been avoiding tax legally since the beginning of the tax system. Nothing is new. It's tax evasion that we should be far more worried about.

estebanrey · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:46

And how much tax as the UK lost through Dyson off shoring all his factories?

kinobestew123 · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:47

Floogie said:
b) people aren't tempted because they know they'll get caught

It's not illegal if done correctly.

The only people you get caught by are the daily mail and other "do gooders".

Fr0dders · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:50

Mark A said:
So will something be done about this now or is it all legal?

I don't know why people always stick up for these celebs that dodge tax .

Its completely legal. Hence tax avoidance.

If they were just not paying tax or falsifying accounts, then it would be tax evasion.

Everybody who earns enough to go significantly above the 40 % / 50 % threshold will be doing it.

Who wouldn't chose to pay 20 % tax and no NI, compared with losing 40 % of your earnings and paying NI as well ?

Yes 40 % is only over 35,000, but if your salary is in the 6 digits, or even the 7 digits, that pales into insignificance with the savings.

There are currently no rules defining how many people you have to employ to become to limited company, or what services it has to provide and to whom. So long as there aren't, people will continue to set themselves up as companies and pay corporation tax as they reap the "profits" their companies make.

kinobestew123 said:
It's partly a publicity stunt beacuse tax avoidance is in the limelight and also, as the article states, they have other reasons for paying more tax (they want to help support the country), nothing to do with taking a moral highground.

What these celebrities are doing is not illegal at all. Some people are just upset (and frankly jealous that they can't do the same) and so are calling it immoral and trying to have it stopped. Some people perceive the situation that they have to pay more tax as a result of celebrities avoiding tax.

People have been avoiding tax legally since the beginning of the tax system. Nothing is new. It's tax evasion that we should be far more worried about.

Indeed. David Cameron was highly laughable calling Jimmy Carr immoral while it turns out most of his fathers wealth was accumulated off shore in tax havens. Again completely legal tax avoidance. All the rich do it.

Dj_Jestar · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:53

A lot of the time the high earners won't even know they're doing it (note: I am not advocating that they are not responsible for it.) Their accountants will just set this stuff up for them and come back with a report of what they will be saving.

kinobestew123 · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:56

Dj_Jestar said:
A lot of the time the high earners won't even know they're doing it (note: I am not advocating that they are not responsible for it.) Their accountants will just set this stuff up for them and come back with a report of what they will be saving.

Exactly. A lot of the major financial services organisations (like the one I work for) have tax departments specifically set up to offer advice to clients looking to save tax or work out the most efficient way of carrying out a transaction/restructure.

I don't even consider it unusual, not quite sure what all the fuss is about.

elmarko · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:57

Not everybody is motivated purely by personal greed.

Floogie · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:58

kinobestew123 said:
Some people perceive the situation that they have to pay more tax as a result of celebrities avoiding tax.

That would be a true perception then.

It's tax evasion that we should be far more worried about.

I'm not convinced that you appreciate the issue here. Some of these avoidance schemes may well be evasion schemes. The problem is there just hasn't been enough will or resource to legally test them yet.

Glaucus · 24 Jul 2012 at 13:59

How has public opinion been so screwed on this. You pay what you have to, no more. It's not morally wrong it's not illegal, all these stories are total hyperbole.
If government isn't happy teen change the laws.

elmarko · 24 Jul 2012 at 14:01

Glaucus said:
If government isn't happy then change the laws.

I totally agree with this, the government has no right to call anybody immoral or wrong when they are the ones who have the power to stop/curtail it.

It's pandering the masses, make a noise that you are against tax avoidance/evasion but in reality do nothing to catch the tax evaders or close the loopholes which allow avoidance.

mattyg · 24 Jul 2012 at 14:04

elmarko1234 said:
Not everybody is motivated purely by personal greed.

Do they sign on every week or every other week nowadays