94% of Greenland has melted

[Hatter The Mad]

cant say i've noticed our tides getting any worse than what they have been over the past few years

edit: and i live right on the coast.

Your bit of coast is fine, so you extrapolate that to the rest of the world...? Wow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise

Where are these countries and coasts? and are you sure they are not just sinking?

 

[estebanrey]

The only source ive found shows that records of melt only started in 1978.

That's even worse then and makes the "worst since records began" moniker even less dramatic.

I know in terms of British weather records they began around the early 1900 hundreds and that's bad enough when you hear the "worst since records began" line on the news, but if we have nothing since 1978 on melting how can you take any current 'record breaking' that seriously?

Ok, tell that to countries and coasts which are currently sinking into the rising ocean

Where exactly?

Besides I don't get your point, that people should somehow be shielding from truth that the Earth's climate will change over time?

 

[Hatter The Mad]

The oil only emissions are an under estimate as I am assuming the emissions have the same weight as the oil, when in actual fact they are greater as hydrogen atoms are replaced with heavier oxygen atoms when oil is burned.

Have you considered the amount of mass (I don't know how much) is converted into energy, or have I missed a step?

 

[GravyMonster]

Where exactly?

The Maldives is probably the most common example.

 

[Glaucus]

snip

except that doesn't show us anything.
now calculate natural co2 release and natural co2 absorption.

cherry picking numbers doesn't help your point at all, as they are pretty meaningless.

Ill just say what i always say in global warming (or should that be climate change)
we've already passed the point according to ICC models, we aren't going to reduce in any meaningful way.
climate always changes and we will have to adopt, even if you agree with climate change, all it means is we have to adopt sooner rather than later, as the cycles will still take place.

 

[LateX'Dog]

Thoughts?



I know some people here don't even believe in global warming but isn't this slightly worrying for the seventh summer in a row?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jul/24/greenland-ice-sheet-thaw-nasa

I've been converted!

I'm now going to give up all my worldly possessions, move into a mud hut, live of the land and hug trees to keep them happy. I'll protest at coal plants and have lots of group hippy sex with drug induced post puberty kids and claim that my way of life is better! Off the grid!

Then I'm going to walk around the streets looking smug and arguing semantics with people and raiding food out of shop bins to prove a point!!111!!

Then I'll take on the big corporations with my drug induced swingers and make them listen to us, because we are the future and i want to preserve my jungle way of life!!1!1 Jungle is massive innit!

Then I'm going to single handedly build my self a wind turbine from leafs and nettles and boast how good i am, build bunkers under my mud hut made from mud and claim the world is going to end unless everybody follows my way of life!!!11!!1

After that is finished and I've had my 50 kids and where living in mud huts i'm going to proclaim my life is spiritually full filled and I'm going to become one with my spirit and ascend to pure oneness with the planet!

What a life.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

except that doesn't show us anything.
now calculate natural co2 release and natural co2 absorption.

cherry picking numbers doesn't help your point at all, as they are pretty meaningless.

He isn't cherry picking numbers, he said they were back of the envelope, and they're not meaningless to represent his point (I suggest you research what the natural CO2 cycle is before laying into him).

 

[paradisiac]

Ok, tell that to countries and coasts which are currently sinking into the rising ocean

you do realise that the mass of ice is forcing the sea levels up, so when it melts it stays pretty much the same level right?

I mean, I have never left ice to melt in a glass and come back to find the glass has overflowed

 

[Basher]

Ok, tell that to countries and coasts which are currently sinking into the rising ocean

So because they live on the coast they can deny these things happen in cycles

It's a threat, yes, but there's probably not a huge amount we can do to stop the cycle.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

you do realise that the mass of ice is forcing the sea levels up, so when it melts it stays pretty much the same level right?

I mean, I have never left ice to melt in a glass and come back to find the glass has overflowed

You see to be grossly underestimating how much ice sits above sea level:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/resources/coldscience/2005-02-03-all-about-ice_x.htm

 

[Hatter The Mad]

So because they live on the coast they can deny these things happen in cycles

It's a threat, yes, but there's probably not a huge amount we can do to stop the cycle.

Humans are most likely accelerating it with their carbon output - but to what degree and (how realistic it is for us to change) are different questions.

http://berkeleyearth.org/

(http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/o...-a-climate-change-skeptic.html?pagewanted=all)

 

[paradisiac]

Humans are most likely accelerating it with their carbon output - but to what degree and (how realistic it is for us to change) are different questions.

http://berkeleyearth.org/

(http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/o...-a-climate-change-skeptic.html?pagewanted=all)

how do we know though. no records were recorded 500 years ago. how do you know these things aren't just long cycles that repeat themselves and nothing we do will stop that?

 

[Glaucus]

He isn't cherry picking numbers, he said they were back of the envelope, and they're not meaningless to represent his point (I suggest you research what the natural CO2 cycle is before laying into him).

they are meaningless and they're very much cherry picked. especially the if it can double co2 in a century. Those numbers do not tell us anything with out natural co2 emissions and natural co2 absorption.
the fact they're rough estimates doens't matter, its the fact those numbers on their own are meaningless.

he has not done any claculations based on teh cycle. he has compared atmospheric co2 with man made co2 emissions. these are largely irrelevant without the other numbers i suggest.

 

[jak731]

Have you considered the amount of mass (I don't know how much) is converted into energy, or have I missed a step?

The amount of mass lost due to the energy released of any chemical reaction is insignificant. ie less than a millionth of 1 percent.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

how do we know though. no records were recorded 500 years ago. how do you know these things aren't just long cycles that repeat themselves and nothing we do will stop that?

...it isn't my job to dummify the research for you; the majority of the quality papers that research this subject are very thorough and transparent as to how they come to certain conclusions or indications. They're all out there, including what I linked to above, which also explains how they have found that in probability, humans are accelerating global warming via CO2 production.

Various sources of evidence are used, ranging from raw statistical and theoretical modelling to physical geology. One of the benefits of geological processes taking so long (tree growth, rock formation, fossilisation) is that it turns the earth into a relatively accurate spreadsheet of environmental data. It just needs to be dug out

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Have you considered the amount of mass (I don't know how much) is converted into energy, or have I missed a step?

The amount of mass lost due to the energy released of any chemical reaction is insignificant. ie less than a millionth of 1 percent.

Oh yeah, I'm being an idiot... should have thought E=MC^2. Thanks

 

[RomanNose]

how do we know though. no records were recorded 500 years ago. how do you know these things aren't just long cycles that repeat themselves and nothing we do will stop that?

There are methods of proxy measuring, such as ice cores and tree rings. These go back to about 800k years ago.

 

[Shadez]

The Maldives is probably the most common example.

Ah the Maldives, average height above sea level 4 ft 11 in.

According to the see level wiki posted above, sea level vary around the globe. This variance can be as much as 8ft above average. With variance like that the Maldives has always been doomed.

 

[Shadez]

There are methods of proxy measuring, such as ice cores and tree rings. These go back to about 800k years ago.

True, and what do all these records show and indicate?

They show that our climate works in cycles and we are due a major shift in climate.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

True, and what do all these records show and indicate?

They show that our climate works in cycles and we are due a major shift in climate.

They show that the temperature cycle has never (never in relative terms) been not as rapid as in the last century, and the best fitting data for to explain the change in rate of change is human CO2 output.