Are we really in as much debt as it's been made out.

jsmoke

jsmoke

jsmoke

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red pepper....
We’re a socialist publication drawing heavily on feminist, green and libertarian politics
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So... not much of a clue at all then.

Yes, we have a lot of debt. But we had more in 1945.. yeah, and living conditions were so awesome in 1945-52 weren't they - let's bring back rationing!
 
More to the point debt was above 100% in the 1920-60s because we'd been in two wars heavily funded by borrowing.

Talk about moronic comparisons...
 
Slam62 said:
much more
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Was going to put exactly this.

The trouble is that debt has lost its value as countries can no longer afford the repayments - watch our debt go through the roof in the next few years. Labour will convince everyone is was the Conservatives fault and we'll have a Labour government again soon enough. History repeats much?
 
kitch9 said:
Debt is debt isn't it? We are currently fighting wars heavily funded by borrowing are we not?
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Estimated cost of WWI for the UK: $35bn (£955bn in today's money, assuming $2:£1 exchange rate)*
Estimated cost of WWII for the UK: £20.5bn (£714bn in today's money)*
Estimated cost of Iraq for the UK: £20bn
Estimated cost of Afganistan for the UK: £18bn

*Ignoring interest due to creditors on money loaned to the UK and the fact that these loans were not repaid until the turn of the century.

Factor in the inflation effect and we're not even talking similar ball park figures for the wars. Anybody with more than several brain cells to rub together would have the journalistic integrity to actually check the crap they write for factual accuracy.

e: Interesting comparison: the combined cost of Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya is equivalent to £1m in 1945 and £700k in 1918.
 
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Theophany said:
More to the point debt was above 100% in the 1920-60s because we'd been in two wars heavily funded by borrowing.

Talk about moronic comparisons...
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Quite.

If anything, it shows how vulnerable we are to a rotten national and global financial system if the extra debt incurred by their failures approaches the cost of two world wars (and the undertaking of massive national social programs).

Either way, the point is not how we got here but are current levels of debt really at crisis point? Not really. It may even be detrimental in paying down debt for a sustained period as it will contract the money supply.

The deficit is the issue and there are numerous ways to reduce it. Sadly only some options are on the political menu for the government and they usually involve the less well-off paying for it.
 
Theophany said:
Estimated cost of WWI for the UK: $35bn (£955bn in today's money, assuming $2:£1 exchange rate)*
Estimated cost of WWII for the UK: £20.5bn (£714bn in today's money)*
Estimated cost of Iraq for the UK: £20bn
Estimated cost of Afganistan for the UK: £18bn

*Ignoring interest due to creditors on money loaned to the UK and the fact that these loans were not repaid until the turn of the century.

Factor in the inflation effect and we're not even talking similar ball park figures for the wars. Anybody with more than several brain cells to rub together would have the journalistic integrity to actually check the crap they write for factual accuracy.

e: Interesting comparison: the combined cost of Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya is equivalent to £1m in 1945 and £700k in 1918.
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Still doesn't negate that debt is debt.... The moneys spent, whether it be on weapons or new schools...

But no, we are a way off critical mass when it comes to debt, but we just need to hope there's not another crash and confidence slowly builds.
 
much more than the media often report - future generations are screwed and they know it.

big problem is future pensions and healthcare - peoples standard of living will have to decrease significantly, they will have no choice.
 
I'm sure they're not lying to us about our levels of debt, but it appears to me that there's a bit a scaremongering going on as to the effect it's having on us.

I personally am no better or worse off that I was two years ago, I don't personally know anyone who's unemployed or who is facing unemployment, and I live near the Bluewater shopping centre which is rammed seven days a week, as are all of the restaurants it houses both the cheap ones and the better ones.

There is talk at work that our pension scheme may be changed to something considerably worse, but so far that's just talk.
Personally I am completely unaffected by the problems in our economy so far.
 
If we (Britain) owe (China, USA, etc) a lot of money, and they owe us a lot of money, why couldn't they just pay the difference?

Naturally I'm sure the global markets are much much more complicated than that! :p
 
boxman2000 said:
Was going to put exactly this.

The trouble is that debt has lost its value as countries can no longer afford the repayments - watch our debt go through the roof in the next few years. Labour will convince everyone is was the Conservatives fault and we'll have a Labour government again soon enough. History repeats much?
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Completely agree, Labour will be slow down the repayment of debt and probably borrow more. Basically everything the conservatives have done and we have put up with to get the country on its feat again will be undone. Knowing labour they will come in again and sell our final gold reserves for euros..again.
 
its not even real money, the whole debt crisis BS is government propaganda for blaming everything on the poor and withdrawing social welfare, keep the bankers and tory party backers rich etc etc. in fact labour are just as bad, they are all as bad as each other.

what needs to change is the fact that the economic system of capitalism is broken
 
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