Confessions of an anxious Athiest.

[Skeptic]

Hi all,

I’m not sure whether it is best to post this in GD or SC. I’ve posted it here but if the replies get too heated/offensive I’d kindly ask for it to be moved.

So, I am an atheist. I’m unsure as to the origins of everything, but I don’t need to invoke the notion of a creator to answer my questions. I am a man of science, in both my professional career and also my private opinions. I also believe myself to be an informed disbeliever. I have read most all of the books from the new atheist revolution (Dawkins, Dennet, Hitchens, Harris and so on), but have also read the counter arguments (the other Hitchens, Francis Collins and others). I’ve also read some holy scripts, philosophy of religion and, well, I consider myself to be relatively well-versed in the whole area.

I find that the atheist position is more persuasive, holds more weight from a logical point of view, and, I think, once you have viewed religion from an atheist perspective, a great deal of the contradictions, ethical dilemmas and (arguably) immoral actions that are based in religion become apparent: it is then difficult to then revert back to seeing organised religion as anything but elaborate ruse.

I hope that this hasn’t offended anybody. I have no issue with people believing whatever they like, and respect that faith offers a great deal to some people, just not to me.

I’d go so far to say that I was envious of those who have faith, and that is the point of this thread. I’m envious because the thought of whatever ‘this’ is (life, consciousness, whatever) ending scares me a great deal. The thought that there’s more must be very comforting. In fact, I consider myself to be a poor atheist because, going from my reading, it seems that atheists also have a sense of ease; they’re find with this all ending and seem to take comfort in it – I really struggle with this.

So, on to the point of this thread, if you’re all still with me.

To those who are atheists, how do you reconcile the inevitability of your end? How can the thought of this ending not be a frightening one?

To those of you who have a religious belief, is there an element of that belief that is motivated by a fear of the unknown?

I hope that this stimulates some interesting debate, and that we can be polite. I’m genuinely interested in some perspectives on this.

 

[Zefan]

I have read most all of the books from the new atheist revolution (Dawkins, Dennet, Hitchens, Harris and so on), but have also read the counter arguments (the other Hitchens, Francis Collins and others). I’ve also read some holy scripts, philosophy of religion and, well, I consider myself to be relatively well-versed in the whole area.

Get a girlfriend LOL.













Seriously though? I'm an agnostic, and although I believe in science to explain our everyday world and our existence in general I tend to hold on to a belief that it can't simply all "end", because I simply don't understand it.

 

[Skeptic]

Get a girlfriend LOL.













Seriously though? I'm an agnostic, and although I believe in science to explain our everyday world and our existence in general I tend to hold on to a belief that it can't simply all "end", because I simply don't understand it.

I have a girlfriend. She is supportive of my reading.

 

[Zefan]

She must have the patience of a saint! It's funny because saint is to do with religion!

I've never actually worried about death though. My thoughts are, if it's the end of everything as you know it and there's nothing you can do about it then why worry?

 

[jsmoke]

One thing your missing and it's called LOVE. That's the key ingredient. Go to church one Sunday morning, try it out. You will be welcomed I can promise you that.

 

[Biohazard]

Confessions?

Nah man, this is gay ass ******* ****.

Read the beano. You find plenty to relax about in there.

 

[Castiel]

You can be an Atheist and Spiritual at the same time. As far as an Afterlife is concerned, you do not need a belief in a Creator or Deity to have a belief in the continuance of your Conciousness, look at Buddhism for example.

Don't let the New Atheist position define your own ideas of what you believe or disbelieve or define the perception of your reality, choose your own path, make your own opinions on what you feel is right for you.

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

We've had this discussion so many times and doesn't it come down to adopting a faith approach which is, by definition, unprovable either way? I'm not wording this very well, perhaps someone can do better.

e : I read the thread title and thought this was going to be about soft porn from the 1970s

 

[Raumarik]

You can be an Atheist and Spiritual at the same time. As far as an Afterlife is concerned, you do not need a belief in a Creator or Deity to have a belief in the continuance of your Conciousness, look at Buddhism for example.

Don't let the New Atheist position define your own ideas of what you believe or disbelieve, choose your own path.

+1 for this Castiel. I've read most of the texts as the OP and to be honest find the way most atheists write rather cold and overly aggressive at times. I consider myself a humanist, even if I don't always agree with that the humanist society does.

Live and let live, let everyone believe what they want as long as they don't try to force others to believe in it. We're all entitled to our own religion or lack of it.

When I die - I don't know what'll happen. I'm more worried about losing others than dying myself and being completely truthful I'm not enormously bothered about dying either as long as it's not overly long, bloody and messy!

 

[Castiel]

We've had this discussion so many times and doesn't it come down to adopting a faith approach which is, by definition, unprovable either way? I'm not wording this very well, perhaps someone can do better.

Another attributed Buddhism quote:

When Buddha was on his death bed he noticed his young disciple Anan was weeping.

'Why are you weeping, Anan?' he asked.

'Because the light of the world is about to be extinguished and we will be in darkness.'

The Buddha summoned up all his remaining energy and spoke what were to be his final words on earth:

'Anan, Anan, be a light unto yourself.'

I think that sums it up.

 

[Spit]

I just cannot find a reason for an afterlife never mind a belief in one. Were just highly evolved animals, nothing more. Just enjoy the time you have

 

[King Damager]

I have read most all of the books from the new atheist revolution (Dawkins, Dennet, Hitchens, Harris and so on), but have also read the counter arguments (the other Hitchens, Francis Collins and others). I’ve also read some holy scripts, philosophy of religion and, well, I consider myself to be relatively well-versed in the whole area.

This pretty much qualifies you more than, well, I'd imagine anyone who isn't Castiel...

To help with your thoughts though, generally speaking I'm agnostic rather than atheist. Personally neither argument has shown what I consider to be definitive proof, and both are basically 'theories'... Until I face proof from one, I'll happily remain in lingo, and deal with whatever happens when I get there.

I think that really that's how I think about it... I'll deal with it when I get there xD

I believe there's something out there, but having been to church, I don't feel it's me... A lot of them they say 'and god did this...' Or 'and god said this...' And I just think how do you know this... It doesn't really suit me...

kd

 

[Morbius]

To those who are atheists, how do you reconcile the inevitability of your end? How can the thought of this ending not be a frightening one?

It's not frightening at all to me. The universe was around billions of years before I was born. I wasn't alive during that time and that wasn't scary at all. When I die, my consciousness will cease to exist so I won't be aware of my death. If there is an afterlife then I will deal with that when I get there.

 

[estebanrey]

I’d go so far to say that I was envious of those who have faith, and that is the point of this thread. I’m envious because the thought of whatever ‘this’ is (life, consciousness, whatever) ending scares me a great deal. The thought that there’s more must be very comforting. In fact, I consider myself to be a poor atheist because, going from my reading, it seems that atheists also have a sense of ease; they’re find with this all ending and seem to take comfort in it – I really struggle with this.

Think of it this way. Does it bother or scare you that you weren't about in 1900 or 1800? Death is no different to not being born yet and you happily spent the vast majority of the history of the universe in that state already.

The probability of you being born at all is minuscule, you've beaten odds that exceed winning the Lottery two weeks in a row. Had just one birth in your lineage not happened, when it did then you would never have had existed.

Believing that on top of that luck you've been blessed with (pardon the pun), that you also deserve to live forever is nothing by arrogance when you think about it.

Don't let the New Atheist position define your own ideas of what you believe or disbelieve or define the perception of your reality, choose your own path, make your own opinions on what you feel is right for you.

New Athiest? What is one of those?

If I've said it once, I'll say it again. Their is no such thing as common shared personality that you can attribute atheism. Atheism simply means 'no deities', that's it. It demands no more and no less. Any personality traits beyond that are simply that, they are not subscribing to collective ashiest manifestos. It is simply their opinions. Richard Dawkins for example isn't a 'new atheist' or 'militant atheist', he is simply a contentious man who happens to be an atheist.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I reconcile my inevitable death with the fact that, when it happens, the chances are that I'll have no idea that it has happened and therefore will feel nothing about it. I know very well that my life is finite and I've no desire to think otherwise. If I could live for hundreds of years, I probably would, and if there was an afterlife, I'd happily go there, but the whole thing is ludicrous as far as I'm concerned.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

To those who are atheists, how do you reconcile the inevitability of your end? How can the thought of this ending not be a frightening one?

The only thing I know is that probably within the next 20 years (if I'm lucky) I will die and that's it.
Now at 54 I have lots of pains & illnesses and it frightens me to think how much worse I'm going to get in 20 years so death will be a blessing.

All we are is dust in the wind - Kansas.

 

[theleg]

To those who are atheists, how do you reconcile the inevitability of your end? How can the thought of this ending not be a frightening one? .

I dont think ive ever felt a need to reconcile it. The thought of the physical act of dying is a bit scary cos it might hurt a bit but the concept of death doesnt really bother me. Just a return to nothing-ness.

 

[Camarilla]

It's not frightening at all to me. The universe was around billions of years before I was born. I wasn't alive during that time and that wasn't scary at all. When I die, my consciousness will cease to exist so I won't be aware of my death. If there is an afterlife then I will deal with that when I get there.

This.

Basically, the way I think of it is that, after a while, I won't exist anymore, but rather than dwell on it, I think about the ways I can use what little time I have to make the time I am here worth it. Worrying about what will happen when I die means I'm not enjoying the time I have to live.

 

[Randomface74]

Why should your own death be anything other than frightening? Be frightened, it's fine.

 

[Skeptic]

It's not frightening at all to me. The universe was around billions of years before I was born. I wasn't alive during that time and that wasn't scary at all. When I die, my consciousness will cease to exist so I won't be aware of my death. If there is an afterlife then I will deal with that when I get there.

I get this. However, the scary thing to me is that not being aware. I enjoy being aware, I don't want it to stop.

You can be an Atheist and Spiritual at the same time. As far as an Afterlife is concerned, you do not need a belief in a Creator or Deity to have a belief in the continuance of your Conciousness, look at Buddhism for example.

Don't let the New Atheist position define your own ideas of what you believe or disbelieve or define the perception of your reality, choose your own path, make your own opinions on what you feel is right for you.

I think this is where I am about now. I just feel that the New A position is so convincing, and, particularly with Hitchens, have not found a strong counter argument to his points. Accepting the most evidenced position is what I do with other things, why should religion be any different? I just wonder how, particularly people like Hitchens, are so content with just popping out of existence. I guess we all just popped in, so it's not that strange. Hitchen's book 'Mortality' brought this point home to me a lot.

We've had this discussion so many times and doesn't it come down to adopting a faith approach which is, by definition, unprovable either way? I'm not wording this very well, perhaps someone can do better.

e : I read the thread title and thought this was going to be about soft porn from the 1970s

Sorry to disappoint! I feel that this is different to the threads before, though, particularly given the fact that I would really like to be religious because it seems a much more pleasant fate than the alternative, but that's no reason to believe!