West Coast Main Line Deal Ditched

[LordSplodge]

civil service staff have been suspended as part of this, why are people blaming the government and not the civil service?

So who does the Civil Service work for? Oh, that's right, the Government. I would suggest that for this level of screw up we should be looking for a senior Civil Servant or Government Mininister to take the blame.

No doubt that won't happen and some poor hapless lower level employee or two will take the blame. In the meantime I'm sure this incident just adds fuel to the fire that is your blind hatred of the Public Sector.

 

[pingwing]

Slow round of applause for the government.

the quote "The government's belated admission that it ran a flawed tendering process will come as a surprise to no one." pretty much sums this whole fiasco up.

Everyone could see the promises of the original bid winners didn't add up, less money in, cheaper trains, more trains... Something was up when that won over Virgin who have overall done a quality job, experienced a few delays (like all trains) but have found the experience of using Virgin trains to be the best around.

The civil service are given a task to do the work of the MP's and it looks like they have been told run the process but make this group the winner. Failings from government and the civil service there, service should be able to turn around and tell the MP's where to shove such a suggestion and MP's need to actually do a proper job instead of look out for their own personal interests.

I had the distinct displeasure of travelling on a First Trans Pennine Express train from Manchester Piccadilly to Newcastle on Sunday. The train had originated from Manchester Airport, one stop prior to Piccadilly, yet was strewn with litter (probably hadn't been cleaned before being turned around), was massively overcrowded with people resorting to sitting on tables while the aisles and doorways were packed with those standing. I myself had to stand for about 2.5 hours of the 3.5 hour journey.

I'd only gone home for the weekend so elected to take the train instead of driving like I normally do, as the ticket costs £45 while the petrol for the journey would have cost me £70. In retrospect, given the conditions on the train, the extra £25 would have been well worth paying to drive. Never again by rail.

Wrong franchise, the cross country ones are a different company. West coast mainline is london to glasgow, going both sides of birmingham, to stoke, crew then branching off to manchester for one end or going to liverpool, branching off to either holyhead or to glasgow, with a small branch off to edinburgh.

You took the scummy cross country ones that take the ratty old lines that interlink the east and west coast lines a bit further north. That's one of the franchises that really needs a shake up because it goes a lot of interesting places but is a pretty poor service further south.

 

[Freakbro]

I take it you have never heard of hanlon's razor then...

And?

You are quoting that like it is an incontrovertible law of nature...

 

[[TW]Fox]

Wrong franchise, the cross country ones are a different company. West coast mainline is london to glasgow, going both sides of birmingham, to stoke, crew then branching off to manchester for one end or going to liverpool, branching off to either holyhead or to glasgow, with a small branch off to edinburgh.

You took the scummy cross country ones that take the ratty old lines that interlink the east and west coast lines a bit further north. That's one of the franchises that really needs a shake up because it goes a lot of interesting places but is a pretty poor service further south.

No, he took First Transpennine Express, as he stated in his post. They also use a fleet of virtually brand new Class 185's not 'rattly old trains'.

 

[Ev0]

So who does the Civil Service work for? Oh, that's right, the Government. I would suggest that for this level of screw up we should be looking for a senior Civil Servant or Government Mininister to take the blame.

No doubt that won't happen and some poor hapless lower level employee or two will take the blame. In the meantime I'm sure this incident just adds fuel to the fire that is your blind hatred of the Public Sector.

Don't be so silly, this was all Johnny from the post room's fault, that damn dirty civil servant ape.

He licked the envelope that sent the final docs so his DNA is on there and everything so it can't have been anyone else's fault.

 

[cHk4]

It was all down to backhanders, just the norm really.

 

[[TW]Fox]

It was all down to backhanders, just the norm really.

I very much doubt this but I guess claiming it was is the trendy thing to do. Unless you have some sort of evidence thats more than just circumstantial, obviously.

Firstgroup were picked because they offered the treasury the most money, not because of backhanders. Obviously this was completely the wrong metric to use to judge the bids.

 

[cHk4]

I very much doubt this but I guess claiming it was is the trendy thing to do. Unless you have some sort of evidence thats more than just circumstantial, obviously.

Firstgroup were picked because they offered the treasury the most money, not because of backhanders. Obviously this was completely the wrong metric to use to judge the bids.

Most things revolve around backhanders and what not when it comes to bidding and going for things. I have no evidence to prove my theory nor do I care if others agree/disagree with my views and opinion. Thing is what we're told is just a form of crowd control and media brain washing, on the surface it appears it was because they offered the treasury more money but again that is just on the surface, a lot goes on behind closed doors.

 

[MagicBoy]

I'm sorry, that makes no sense whatsoever.

Why would First offer backhanders when they're offering more money up front?

 

[cHk4]

Why would First offer backhanders when they're offering more money up front?

That I couldn't answer, much like I couldn't answer why people do certain things or make certain decisions, if what I said is true then I'm sure they had their reasons.

 

[MagicBoy]

Most things revolve around backhanders and what not when it comes to bidding and going for things.

My experience of Local Government procurement says otherwise. Anyone sends you more than a free mouse mat and the **** hits the fan.

 

[atpbx]

So who does the Civil Service work for? Oh, that's right, the Government. I would suggest that for this level of screw up we should be looking for a senior Civil Servant or Government Mininister to take the blame.

No doubt that won't happen and some poor hapless lower level employee or two will take the blame. In the meantime I'm sure this incident just adds fuel to the fire that is your blind hatred of the Public Sector.

Do the Civil Service work for the Government?

No they dont is the answer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_Majesty's_Civil_Service

 

[Dave M]

Firstgroup were picked because they offered the treasury the most money, not because of backhanders. Obviously this was completely the wrong metric to use to judge the bids.

I'm not sure they will change that metric, but the way the payment has been structured (i.e. back end loaded) is flawed as there is a risk they will just re-negotiate or walk away at that point. There should at least be heavy penalties in a very carefully worded contract to avoid this.

If they adjust the offer to be the same total but evenly spread across the franchise period I expect they'll still get it.

As has been said, this is policy, of course policy can change in which case all bets are off, the new policy could state all franchise bids must be led by a beardey balloonist.

 

[cHk4]

My experience of Local Government procurement says otherwise. Anyone sends you more than a free mouse mat and the **** hits the fan.

Yea', things are getting far worse in terms of bribes and certain companies having to reject free bottles of wine etc... But people break laws, rules and regulations every day.

 

[cm1179]

£40m down the gurgler. well done, everyone.

 

[ColdAsIce]

Can we just re-name Government ministers to spokespersons? As far as I can see they just take the word of the staff doing the work as gospel with no input from themselves.

 

[atpbx]

Yea', things are getting far worse in terms of bribes and certain companies having to reject free bottles of wine etc... But people break laws, rules and regulations every day.

Its like that in the NHS now, I cant even give the account managers and porters christmas gifts to thank them for their business as its considered a bribe.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

service should be able to turn around and tell the MP's where to shove such a suggestion.

Which is exactly the scenario Maude is trying to ensure never happens.

<slow clap>

 

[RDM]

They we saying an Radio4 that this is the result of unworkable government policy rather than technical difficulties in the bidding process.

Yeah, I was listening to that this morning. It was just after the Miliband interview if I recall. I was somewhat surprised that they effectively only gave one side of the story though, there was no attempt at balance just a commentator going "It was all the fault of the government".

 

[Dolph]

well considering whatever happens they usually find someone low down the food chain to take the bullet for the ministers incompetence, yeah it probably is.

Whatever your problem is with public sector workers, I think you need to change the record. one minute its the NHS the next its the civil service, give it a rest, you cant run a country without public sector workers, leave your jealous rage at the door and come back with some decent debate.

fallacy, the requirement to have some form of public sector does not imply that the one we have is fit for purpose.

The civil service does not work for the government. ministers have no managerial input on the civil servants in their department. until this changes, blaming the government for civil service failures is massively flawed.