Traffic Appeal

I think what most people would assume 'private' to mean in this sort of case (i.e. not a supermarket etc.) is not the same as what the Road Traffic Act considers private (i.e. not accessible to the public).

Something like an office's car park may say 'private land' or similar but i'm fairly sure that if you can just drive into it, it doesn't count as a 'private car park' as far as the RTA is concerned.
 
topshot said:
OP said private car park, if it is a private car park then it may not apply.
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s16 of the RTA which deals with crash helmets applies to a "road". Whether it is owned by a private individual or company or by the council is immaterial.

A road "means any highway and any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes". Unless there are barriers restricting public access, then this is highly likely to be subject to the RTA like Fox said.
 
I got stopped by the police for not wearing a seat belt in what is technically a private car park, but with public roads and access (Glasgow Fort retail park). I was driving from one car park to another.

I got away with it on the grounds that it was a private car park and they couldn't do anything.

That was until they noticed my tax was out of date :p

Got away with that too though.
 
kieranv said:
I got stopped by the police for not wearing a seat belt in what is technically a private car park, but with public roads and access (Glasgow Fort retail park). I was driving from one car park to another.

I got away with it on the grounds that it was a private car park and they couldn't do anything.
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They could've FPN'd you or summons you if they wanted. They had every right to.

Don't confuse getting lucky with being untouchable.
 
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Burnsy2023 said:
s16 of the RTA which deals with crash helmets applies to a "road". Whether it is owned by a private individual or company or by the council is immaterial.

A road "means any highway and any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes". Unless there are barriers restricting public access, then this is highly likely to be subject to the RTA like Fox said.
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IIRC, if the business (and therefore car park) is closed at the time that the car park would cease to become a public place and therefore be considered private (presuming you had permission from the land owner to be there). Can't remember for sure though.
 
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Gaygle said:
Do i remember it rightly that if the business is closed at the time that the car park could cease to become a public place and therefore be considered private?
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It's still a road to which the public have access. They don't suddenly not have access because the shop is closed unless its subsequently gated.
 
[TW]Fox;23209571 said:
It's still a road to which the public have access.
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As far as i remember, a car park is not "a road", but it falls under the RTA because it falls within the definitition of a "place to which the public have access". By closing the car park/business, you are removing this provision meaning that it is no longer a public place, hence it does not fall under the RTA.

[TW]Fox;23209571 said:
They don't suddenly not have access because the shop is closed unless its subsequently gated.
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A physical barrier OR act of defiance to a prohibition. As far as i can see, going into a closed car park with a sign stating it's opening hours is an "act of defiance to a prohibition"?

This is me just spitballing, i can't remember all the ins and outs of car parks. I remember there were a bunch of exemptions such as access conditional to payment, or being a member of a private club and i also remember something about car parks changing definition depending on whether they were open or closed.

Sure you'd probably be committing trespass if you didn't have the land owners permission, but we're talking about the RTA.
 
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Gaygle said:
As far as i remember, a car park is not "a road", but it falls under the RTA because it falls within the definitition of a "place to which the public have access". By closing the car park/business, you are removing this provision meaning that it is no longer a public place, hence it does not fall under the RTA.
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But the carpark isn't closed if the public still have access to it unless somebody has locked it.

Sure you'd probably be committing trespass if you didn't have the land owners permission, but we're talking about the RTA.
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Tresspass* is not a criminal offence.

*Except specific cases, ie tresspass on the railway.
 
See my edit. I have very very very slow internet, so i'm struggling to keep up. And indeed trespass is obviously a civil offence, but an offence none the less afaik.
 
I cannot remember the last time I saw a carpark with actual stated opening hours which didn't also have a gate. Usually the purpose of displaying the opening hours is to prevent people being locked in.

All the retail parks etc round here do not have stated opening hours for the ungated carparks.
 
Most if not all supermarket car parks have opening hours. Although one may argue this is the store's opening hours, although not expressly stated, it is implied that it is also the car park's also.
 
If the business is closed but the public still have access then it still falls
Under the rta. Ie your tesco car park at night when store is closed.
 
[TW]Fox;23209886 said:
Irrelevent for the purposes of the RTA.
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Why?

You are commiting "an act of defiance to a prohibition, express or implied". You are defying the posted store opening hours, at the entrance to the car park. It is implied that these opening hours are the same for the car park also. Like i said before, just giving my take on things. Would be good to hear from a legal eagle or someone with good knowledge on this.
 
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