Valve

[Shamikebab]

It's not at all unethical.

 

[Purdy]

Valve's reputation grew out of it's games development. Recently there hasn't been much of note and Dota 2 just looks like another run of the mill clicky-clicky-stabby-stabby-spells game.

bahahaha

Also valve in making money shocker, they just don't do it in a nobbish way like EA or Activision.

 

[Gimpymoo]

bahahaha

Also valve in making money shocker, they just don't do it in a nobbish way like EA or Activision.

LOL.

The thing is, their execs are so open about it, it is nearly funny.

 

[spoffle]

I think Valve is becoming a bit dodgy. The whole store aspect with the social aspect is very clever, almost unethical.

Why not get what your friends are getting. They dont have to bother manipulating people, they've just stumbled on the perfect means to so they can do it to one another.

If they just had games then they would not have such a huge lead over all their competitors.

They have the huge embedded users, with all these social environment, which they keep adding to more and more over time, so that once your in you cant do without it or it just beats the competitors by a mile.

No one else has a chance really. Its just as well they are good, but then again you can do some bad things whilst being good.

Unethical? How's it any different to my friend saying "Just bought this game, it's really good. If you get it we can play co-op"?

 

[Omaeka]

Jesus wept....what?!?

They are, although I don't know if gimmick is the right word, lets say 'gameplay' games, which in my opinion is negative although it isn't terrible. They are games that focus on gameplay for little to no storyline, although that is the impression I have so far.

I hope the "broken mess" isn't based on the fact that you've been having issues with it on your PC.

If so, you should know better than that!

Well tbh, my issues are quite common based on research I've done on them (never any fixes though). One of which (and the most annoying) is the fact Steam freezes and becomes unresponsive when logging in, but apparently that is just what Steam does if it's queueing updates for your games if you haven't logged in very recently, which is just ridiculous and really should be removed.

Steam has always had massive stints of (Not Responding) for me since I first ever used it, so far my PC has;

- Day one of purchase from OcUK, installed Steam almost instantly and it did it from day one then.
- Two full formats, and clean installs of Windows for reasons not related to Steam, issue persisted from the second I installed it both of these times.
- Recently had a hardware change (FX-4100 to a 3570k) which forced me to reformat and reinstall again, and to this day it is still the same.

If you can tell me anything I'm doing wrong from that, I'm all ears, but in my opinion it's simply a hardware compatibility issue, either that or Steam is broken on Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit (doubtful).

Hardware:

Spoiler

i5 3570k @ stock
MSI Z77A-G43 Intel Z77 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard
HD6850 @ stock
Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB)
Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C 1TB SATA-II

I'm not sure how you see their IPs as gimmicks. Portal games are part of the Half Life series, they actually put a lot of effort in to them story wise, but they are essentially half life games.

Well I'm yet to play them properly, oops. They just seem like they focus on gameplay and nothing else.

They have a large studio, but they aren't lazy. The issue isn't laziness, it's the fact that everyone has the freedom to work on whatever project they want to work on. The issue is a lack of structured direction, not laziness.

What projects would they be though? We never hear about anything from Valve, so are they personal? Paying your staff to sit around and office all day editing family photos or creating independent games isn't the best way to go tbh.

Fanboys are their own issue, they are moron but it's not really Valve's issue or fault.

True, but hardly a pro.

I've heard all sorts about their customer support, it seems to lowly peons aren't all that helpful, I've also heard (first hand too) that when these peons aren't doing their job, an email to Gabe often gets things worked out for you.

He'll either do it himself, or it'll be passed on to some one in the "executive" office to deal with which usually results in a positive outcome.

Not to say that it's not a negative aspect, but rather nearly every company I've experienced has morons at the bottom of its customer service "ladder".

Their customer support was abysmal for me, would you say Gothic 3 Enhanced Edition, which is 5 years old, would have issues running on a 3570k w/hd6850 even on lowest at 720p? It stutters like a nutcase and I wanted a refund as it's pathetic, instead I was refused and directed to a defunct games studio to get a refund, what? LOL also, the ticket is still open and ignored to this day. I also had an issue with Crysis not working (worked after a mobo swap, so was a hardware issue) yet they still refused a refund when it wouldn't even launch, thankfully I got that fixed so it wasn't a waste of money.

Point is, if you buy something from the Steam store that doesn't work, you'll never see a refund. I didn't know about contacting Gabe though, will do that I reckon, can't have a game sitting in my library being unplayable, even if it was only a fiver.

The latest NFS wasn't a bad stab at this to be fair (except for the exclusively high end list of cars). It's not as fun as underground was but it's pretty close. Thinking back to it, NFSU1/2 were absolute crackers, I can't even comprehend why they didn't make more.

What do you mean? In Most Wanted are you forced to race high end supercars from the get go? The whole charm of games like those, is having a modest road car and matching the supercars with it. Seems like another case of 'let's take half the game away' ala Command & Conquer 4.

Shift 2 was their best.

 

[Purdy]

Well I'm yet to play them properly, oops. They just seem like they focus on gameplay and nothing else.

Evidently, Dota2 is one of the most attention to detail games you will see. Don't make sweeping statements if you don't know what you're talking about.

EDIT: Outside of gameplay as well as.

 

[walk on]

I just wish that as their rolling in the money that they make more games, not 1 a year if that.

 

[Shamikebab]

They are, although I don't know if gimmick is the right word, lets say 'gameplay' games, which in my opinion is negative although it isn't terrible. They are games that focus on gameplay for little to no storyline, although that is the impression I have so far.

You're just making this sound more and more like a pro

 

[walk on]

Recently there hasn't been much of note and Dota 2 just looks like another run of the mill clicky-clicky-stabby-stabby-spells game.

Get informed on the deepest team based game of all time.

 

[Omaeka]

Evidently, Dota2 is one of the most attention to detail games you will see. Don't make sweeping statements if you don't know what you're talking about.

Does that mean it has a strong storyline or lore structure? Although Dota isn't Valve, is it, they've just slapped the Valve logo on it from what somebody else on here said, kinda like calling DA: Origins an EA game, like they had anything to do with that masterpiece, nope.

You're just making this sound more and more like a pro

Opinions though, storyline should come first with most games, even Street Fighter has a stronger storyline than anything I've experienced from Valve so far (although SF has an amazing storyline).

1) I never knew that's the case, is that a widely accepted claim or your personal view of it? Could you explain as to how it is broken, I would like to understand.

2) I don't really see how their IP are gimmick? I don't see how you can put it under negatives, gimmick usually implies a bad game however all their games have been good to excellent, they don't make bad games, you said it yourself. You are essentially contradicting yourself here unless you don't mean a gimmick makes a game bad but if that's the case then why is it a negative if a game is good?

3)What do you mean never make any games? Making constant stream of games every year makes a good developer? Well if you like that sort of thing then COD related games are for you but that doesn't make developer good or bad, one concentrates on quantity the other one on quality. Some people like games that are nurtured to perfection other like COD-like system.

4) I have not seen any fanboism, I don't go to any other forums so don't know how people react to steam as a whole, I think people on this forum are generally quite rational and won't fall for silly things. In any case, the way people form their bias have nothing to do with how good the company is, it's not their fault.

5) I had to deal with customer service once and it was a quick and painless event. Again I do not know the actually full opinion, if valve is notorious for bad customer support then sure that's a big negative point for a company but I never or at least rarely see any complains (and the complains are usually made as a result of user-related mistake).

I would like to make a point if valve is indeed a bad company then it shouldn't be put on a pedestal of the "best" pc developer out there but the points you put here seem to be silly.

1) See my previous post, they aren't exactly super common but a lot of people have the same issues, there has never been an explanation as to why they occur.

2) By Gimmick I meant games that focus on something completely opposite to Storyline (COD for example, or Quake, or anything that tries horribly but fails to implement a good story to fit around awesome gameplay structures). Which IMO is a negative.

3) They do not make any games at all, they average what, about a game a year in the past 10 years? Left 4 Dead 2 comes across as a 1 month job, simply modifying L4D1 and adding new content, same as Portal, which isn't bad, but there is nothing at all which makes it obvious as to why they never release games. Only series they have that to me look like they've actually done anything other than an update in the sequel are Half-Life and Counter-Strike

4) You should really go look mate, its rampant everywhere, I slightly understand why, Valve are good, but they aren't this amazing company everyone says they are, they are good, they are just made to look amazing by the rest of the **** out there.

5) Lucky you, every experience I've had so far has been long winded and downright rude/unhelpfull.

 

[Purdy]

You haven't got a clue at all do you.

The only thing I'll give EA over Valve is the ease of contacting their customer service, whether it is better or not is another question.

 

[Omaeka]

You haven't got a clue at all do you.

The only thing I'll give EA over Valve is the ease of contacting their customer service, whether it is better or not is another question.

I don't tbf, but that's because I'm put off by Valves story depth to content ratios, other than Half-Life I just cannot seem to attract myself to the idea of playing them, because they seem very in depth gameplay wise but shallow story wise, nobody can say Left 4 Dead has a good story.

I'm just massively put off when a company makes a game focused on the gameplay/multiplayer etc. then try to squeeze some lame, cheesy storyline inbetween the gaps as gaffa tape. The only game like that which has appealed to me is Quake.

Although, this thread has definitely made Portal appeal to me now, finally.

 

[Purdy]

So you mean you prefer stories to games

As for Dota being filled with lore yeah it is, and the work on art design/voice work. The only thing that is the same as Dota1 is pretty much the balance numbers

 

[Shamikebab]

L4D doesn't have a massive story element (it's designed to be a heavily replayable co-op game, a story would get in the way of that) although the story in the comic of the game is brilliant! Likewise TF2 and Counterstriker are obviously multiplayer games so don't have stories. Portal 1 and 2 have a great story though.

 

[Omaeka]

So you mean you prefer stories to games

Depends, if it has amazing gameplay it'll attract me to it, if it has an amazing storyline that will too. I played Left 4 Dead quite a lot, and have almost finished Black Mesa (where's this story everyone hypes about? :/). I've just been massively spoilt by games like Metal Gear and Street Fighter, which have stories and lore as deep as they go, and the gameplay of Portal (the only Valve title I can think of that I haven't had a gander with yet) doesn't seem good enough to not keep me gripped with a good storyline. May be wrong though.

If it has no storyline, the gameplay has to be good enough to what I like to keep me playing, and vice versa.

 

[Nerusy]

Does that mean it has a strong storyline or lore structure? Although Dota isn't Valve, is it, they've just slapped the Valve logo on it from what somebody else on here said, kinda like calling DA: Origins an EA game, like they had anything to do with that masterpiece, nope.



Opinions though, storyline should come first with most games, even Street Fighter has a stronger storyline than anything I've experienced from Valve so far (although SF has an amazing storyline).



1) See my previous post, they aren't exactly super common but a lot of people have the same issues, there has never been an explanation as to why they occur.

2) By Gimmick I meant games that focus on something completely opposite to Storyline (COD for example, or Quake, or anything that tries horribly but fails to implement a good story to fit around awesome gameplay structures). Which IMO is a negative.

3) They do not make any games at all, they average what, about a game a year in the past 10 years? Left 4 Dead 2 comes across as a 1 month job, simply modifying L4D1 and adding new content, same as Portal, which isn't bad, but there is nothing at all which makes it obvious as to why they never release games. Only series they have that to me look like they've actually done anything other than an update in the sequel are Half-Life and Counter-Strike

4) You should really go look mate, its rampant everywhere, I slightly understand why, Valve are good, but they aren't this amazing company everyone says they are, they are good, they are just made to look amazing by the rest of the **** out there.

5) Lucky you, every experience I've had so far has been long winded and downright rude/unhelpfull.

Right first lets get technical steam platform issues and custom service out of the way. Majority are happy, otherwise the internet would have made steam and valve notorious for bad service. In reality they have reputation for both good customer service and platform, Individual rare cases do not make the rule, it is expected when it comes to PC (certain hardware combinations, software clutter). Majority are happy therefore majority like valve and it is rational to like valve. Fanboism implies to like something irrationally, but people have a good reason to like valve. (Again there will be some people who are likely to like valve irrationally and really do fall under "fanboy" criteria but they fall neither under pro or con of company) however they are not majority, majority like the company for valid good reasons.

Now onto frequency of game releases. That is not true at all, lets bring Bullfrog Productions, beloved developer studio that brought many people joy with their amazing games. In 17 years they made 21 games. Valve in 16 years of existence made 27. Edit: Also you say they are massive company and therefore should shoot out many games left and right but in reality they only have 293 employees. To give you some prospective Blizzard Entertainment has over 4,600.

Now onto the story aspect, that's another moot point. They pack all their games with story, even when story is not needed, there is tons of lore for TF2 where the conventional wisdom is that multiplayer only oriented games do not even require story. Valve always puts a good story in the games on top of revolutionary gameplay. You admit yourself you have not played games hence your point is (forgive me) stupid, how can you say that they don't have story if they have not played them? At least read the synopsis of plot on wiki to confirm and deny your prejudice.

Pal, the only real valid negative points you have are customer service and steam platform issues, both are circumstantial biased and rare as a result will not affect the majority, who, as a result like the company.

 

[Safron414]

I agree with OP.
I've heard people speak ill about every single game developer out there (including Valve) but I choose to ignore that and base my opinion on my own experience.
I buy my games mainly via Steam, Origin, Blizzard and GOG, and the only bad experience I have ever had was with GOG, where I was so happy to find that there was a Windows 7 port of my very first game I ever played, only to find out that the game is crashing on launch. I emailed the support three times but didn't even get a reply.
I've been in contact with the support for all of the others above and I have always been treated with respect and my queries have always been answered. I don't particulary feel that I am being treated badly as a consumer from any part. Not even from GOG - considering the game was only 3.99 /shrug

 

[Tummy]

Is it cool now to bash Valve? Is this really going to become a thing?

By some distance one of the best developers and steam is by some distance the best gaming platform on PC.

 

[Souness]

Is OP really having a go at Valve for offering you a huge variety of games at cheap prices? That has to be the dumbest thing I've heard. If you buy a game and don't play it, then you are a fool and you deserve to lose your money.

Also, I suggest you wait for HL3 or whatever Valve is working on atm (let me assure you, Dota 2 is nothing but a side-project), before you accuse them of doing nothing.

 

[Omaeka]

I'm in no way bashing them in case anyone thinks I was, I do agree they are one of the top companies in gaming at the minute, but they are far from perfect, which is something everyone seems to consider them. When will a business improve itself if all it gets are constant praise while their negative aspects go unquestioned? There really is no reason for a program as simple as Steam to not work on certain configurations perfectly, nor is there no reason not to issue a refund to somebody who cannot use a product you provided.

The rest is my opinion, and everyone here so far has managed to sway that a little, I appologise for juding their games before thoroughly experiencing them, and will finish Half-Life and Portal soon enough, but I still don't think my opinion will change. I'm good at picking up story and lore just from gameplay, which is what Valve seem to offer (instead of tons of in your face cutscenes), as I know pretty much everything there is to know about Dark Souls for example, so I won't miss anything, and will see if my opinion changes.