Religion question?

trojan698 · 19 Dec 2012 at 10:52

Does that not scare you into believing? People are so troublesome these days. Hmpf.

trojan698 · 19 Dec 2012 at 10:54

Gilly said:
Atheism is not absence of belief. It is belief that there is no God. It is a faith based position as much as believing in God is.

Those babies you mention will be closer to agnostic than atheist.

Agreed.

Hades · 19 Dec 2012 at 10:55

Malevolence said:
So, let me get this straight. You're claiming that Charles Darwin, who died in 1882, was a supporter of the Nazi party? A political party that didn't get going until around 1919-1920. How does that work then?

So many of these -->

Hatter The Mad · 19 Dec 2012 at 10:56

Gilly said:
Atheism is not absence of belief. It is belief that there is no God. It is a faith based position as much as believing in God is.

That's not true - it is the rejection of the belief in deities (i.e. in the broad sense, atheist agnostic).

I believe you're coming at it from a narrow definition of the word atheism, which would be wrong, because the definition has well evolved over the last couple of decades.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

koolpc · 19 Dec 2012 at 10:57

Castiel said:
Your faith should be underpined by reason. Blind faith is no faith. You have reasons why you believe as you do I would assume and within those reasons should lie your proof. Whether others accept your reasoning or not doesnt mean a whole lot unless they claim you are wrong, then they should show their reasoning why you are wrong. It is effectively pitting one body of evidence against another, one set of proofs against another opposing set of proofs.

Faith is believing in something without the need to go looking for 'proof'.

You, like a lot of others, need scientific proof that something exists beyond your reasoning. Telling a Christian he needs proof is rubbish. Faith is massive. Having real faith is what separates a 'Believer' from some who needs proof to believe.

It is hard for someone who doesnt believe in God etc to accept someone who has 100% faith in his or her own beliefs.

Gilly · 19 Dec 2012 at 10:57

Hatter The Mad said:
That's not true - it is the rejection of the belief in deities (i.e. in the broad sense, atheist agnostic).

I believe you're coming at it from a narrow definition of the word atheism, which would be wrong, because the definition has well evolved over the last couple of decades.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

That rejection requires faith.

Theism - there is at least one god.
Atheism - there is no god.
Agnostic - there is no way, other than reliance on faith, to decide my position so I will suspend my belief either way.

Just because atheists don't like being told their position is a faith based one, so decide to include agnosticism in atheism (which is inherently wrong), doesn't make it right.

Amnesia · 19 Dec 2012 at 10:59

MeatSack said:
I hope all you atheists realise you support the devil, and will burn in the lake of fire for eternity for your blasphemy.

If a teacher fails to get his message across do you blame the students ?

Reminds me of that really really bad teacher who sent out mixed messages....but meant well.

Then when his students still didn't learn he went home and took his anger out on his son by torturing him to death......but he meant well and did it for the love of his students.

koolpc · 19 Dec 2012 at 11:00

Gilly said:
That rejection requires faith.

No it doesnt. Just blind ignorance! :cool:

Gilly · 19 Dec 2012 at 11:01

koolpc said:
No it doesnt. Just blind ignorance!

No, blind ignorance and/or brainwashing is what you get in any mass religion. Atheism makes more sense than any of the mass religions, but that doesn't stop it requiring faith.

Now stop trolling, no-one can make the statements you have and mean them and still remember to breathe and be able to type. You'd be too stupid.

koolpc · 19 Dec 2012 at 11:03

Gilly said:
No, blind ignorance and/or brainwashing is what you get in any mass religion. Atheism makes more sense than any of the mass religions, but that doesn't stop it requiring faith.

Now stop trolling, no-one can make the statements you have and mean them and still remember to breathe and be able to type. You'd be too stupid.

Trolling? lol, you lose a debate and you throw your dummy out of the pram!!

Hatter The Mad · 19 Dec 2012 at 11:06

Gilly said:
That rejection requires faith.

You might think it does, but it doesn't.

Not all propositions are created equally: faith is a belief in something for which insufficient evidence exists. Atheism isn't a faith, it's a position based on there being no sufficient evidence.

So, how can atheism be a faith?

Gilly · 19 Dec 2012 at 11:06

koolpc said:
Trolling? lol, you lose a debate and you throw your dummy out of the pram!!

How can I lose a debate that I've not been part of?

[edit]No to mention that no-one could ever possibly lose a debate with you

koolpc · 19 Dec 2012 at 11:07

Gilly said:
How can I lose a debate that I've not been part of?

Oh, so you just pop in to have a dig then?

Gilly · 19 Dec 2012 at 11:08

koolpc said:
Oh, so you just pop in to have a dig then?

Nope, just to tell you to sto ptrolling and put my point across.

koolpc · 19 Dec 2012 at 11:09

Gilly said:
Nope, just to tell you to sto ptrolling and put my point across.

Not trolling though. Why would it be trolling? I am putting my point across but you dont accept that! Maybe you are trolling?

Gilly · 19 Dec 2012 at 11:10

koolpc said:
Not trolling though. Why would it be trolling? I am putting my point across but you dont accept that! Maybe you are trolling?

Blind ignorance?

You are fishing for bites and doing it very blatantly. You've been told to stop it, now shut up about it.

Haggisman · 19 Dec 2012 at 11:11

Hatter The Mad said:
Not all propositions are created equally: faith is a belief in something for which insufficient evidence exists.

There is insufficient evidence that god doesn't exist (mostly because it's virtually impossible to prove a negative).

Therefore, atheism is the faith that god unequivocally does not exist, regardless of the lack of evidence to prove it.

estebanrey · 19 Dec 2012 at 11:14

Gilly said:
Atheism is not absence of belief. It is belief that there is no God. It is a faith based position as much as believing in God is.

You are putting forward a common misconception.

Atheism literally means "without God"...

Definition of atheism
noun
[mass noun]

disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Atheism is not 'the positive rejction of God' and anyone with a lack of belief (like a baby for example) is by definition an atheist.

Gilly said:
Those babies you mention will be closer to agnostic than atheist.

Another misconception, agnosticism isn't a compromise between atheism and theism as the latter are binary choices. It simply answers a different question. Anyone that can't disprove God's existence or prove his existence is an agnostic (so technically all of us) but the question to whether you actively believe or not in God is a binary choice, you have to answer yes or no and it's that answer which makes you a theist or an atheist.

The whole idea that an atheist is someone who is aware of the belief in God but then rejects and tries to disprove it is a modern day interpretation of the word.

Hatter The Mad · 19 Dec 2012 at 11:15

Haggisman said:
There is insufficient evidence that god doesn't exist (mostly because it's virtually impossible to prove a negative).

Therefore, atheism is the faith that god unequivocally does not exist, regardless of the lack of evidence to prove it.

What you're doing there is trying to force atheism into the distorted mould and framework of faith and belief in god. I suggest reading around your philosophy before playing with that fire: http://philosophersplayground.blogspot.co.uk/2007/01/faitheism-does-atheism-require-faith.html

There is insufficient evidence that a god exists. You do not need faith to know that but you do need faith to ignore that fact.

koolpc · 19 Dec 2012 at 11:17

Haggisman said:
There is insufficient evidence that god doesn't exist (mostly because it's virtually impossible to prove a negative).

Therefore, atheism is the faith that god unequivocally does not exist, regardless of the lack of evidence to prove it.

People find it hard to believe in god without proof of some kind or another. The big majority of christians etc can live without ever having to look for that proof. We have massive amounts of faith, which some one here would call blind faith, i dont. Having a strong belief in a God, in a religion, is only able because of 'Faith'.

You will always get arguments for and against with those needing proof always having a go at people who believe without any evidence what-so-ever.

I am proud of my beliefs but if anyone wants to think otherwise then that is up to them.

An atheist doesnt need faith, just proof.