Anybody else impressed with winter tyres in the recent snow?
- Thread starter Scania
- Start date
So going by that logic, they'd have cost me a fortune, 3 cars in 3 years, all with different sized wheels/tyres.
How on earth did we all survive 5+ years ago when we all drove on summer tyres all year long.
Thank god the tyre manufacturer marketing departments came along and saved us all from certain death. Its good of them to put peoples safety above profit for once.
Oh wait...
Thank god the tyre manufacturer marketing departments came along and saved us all from certain death. Its good of them to put peoples safety above profit for once.
Oh wait...
Soldato
- Joined
- 5 Aug 2006
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- 11,431
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- Derbyshire
I buy premium tyres and have never had an issue in snow or winter in general, even though I don't go on many back lanes or ever go down dirt tracks.
I just take it easy when I know it is 0 celcius or colder
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I just take it easy when I know it is 0 celcius or colder
.I buy premium tyres and have never had an issue in snow or winter in general, even though I don't go on many back lanes or ever go down dirt tracks.
I just take it easy when I know it is 0 celcius or colder
Decent tyres + common sense beats winter tyres and an "its ok I don't need to clear the snow from the drive I have winter tyres" mentality every time.
Plus, I can count the number of times I have driven in snow since passing my test (10 years) on one hand.
That's strange cos it's not what they found in 2011 by a long shot???
http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/274177/evo_2011_winter_tyre_test_the_scores.html
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2011-EVO-Winter-Tyre-Test.htm
It's pretty much established fact, isn't it, that winters are better than summers in cold wet conditions, not just snow? Certainly is over here and, I dare say, the several other European countries where extensive testing has been done and winter tyres made mandatory (or are used by the vast majority even where no legislation exists). Also matches my own experience as related above. My winters dont honestly feel any worse than my summers even when it's bone dry. Even if it creeps above the magic 7 degrees where winter tyres apparently switch off and summers switch on
.[TW]Fox;23571531 said:
Agree the 'may as well fit linglongs' is stupid...
...but really can't see the 'not worth it cos it's buying a whole new set of tyres' line. I mean it's not like your summers are still wearing out while you're using your winters. It's not like having a second car to use where you have to keep both taxed and insured. You only use one set at a time!
Sure you have an initial investment in a second set of wheels, but that can be as cheap as a set of old steelies. After that your 'rubber cost per mile' is exactly the same as if you only have one set of tyres. Therefore it's arguably a free upgrade. It's an upgrade because you can have tyres optimised for the conditions at all times of the year. Even in southern England they would arguably be a better choice in at least the three winter months. Plus you have the option of different width/profile/size etc for each set. E.g. I can have my winters on my 17s at 235 all round which is a far more appropriate choice for the winter than staggered 18s 265/235 which I can throw on for the summer. It's just win win unless for some reason you can't store a spare set of wheels, so I'm genuinely surprised at some of the premium tyre snobs on here arguing they are pointless.
Soldato
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- 14 Dec 2005
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- 12,488
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- Bath
Hopefully it will snow this weekend and I'll give them a try!
This is the problem. Buying 'any old winter tyres' is not giving you a tyre optimised for the conditions. Most peoples choice for winter tyres will be worse than the summer tyres they take off in all conditions bar actual snow.
So what people are actually doing is being sucked in by the marketing hype and ending up with a tyre optimised for a condition we hardly ever get in the UK, but compromised in every other area.
Whereas the number of times (days if you want to count it like that) I've driven in the snow in my 12 years on the road must be close to, if not in the hundreds.
Still not had the need for anything beyond normal tyres in the UK though.
Although I have needed chains in France a handful of times
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
If I lived where you live, I'd fit them without hestitation.
I don't. I live in the South West of England. Only this week has it even dipped below 10c during the day. There is no snow here - there almost never is. Even with the big weather warning for Friday, it stops short of where I live. So no, I wont be rushing out to buy a crappy set of steel wheels to join the winter tyre bandwagon that seeminingly only started rolling 4 years ago. And never once in 10 years have I ever had a moment where I thought 'I should change these tyres' so I'm certainly not going to blow a pile of cash and make my car look crap for 3 months of the year just to join the 'lets pretend we have a proper winter climate' bandwagon.
Your evo links are interesting. I suggest you read them yourself because these are interesting excerpts:
That sounds terrible, doesn't it, the way they've potrayed it. But really 7 metres is the sort of distance you'd use to chose one tyre over another when buying but not to completely change a tyre type, downgrade your alloys and keep a spare set of wheels for, is it? More than 7m seperates the pack in performnace summer tyre tests, for example. And thats 7m between the BEST winter tyre and the summer tyre. It'll be less with the others.
Infact, last year there was a big wet braking test in non-winter conditions. It involved braking in the wet from a similar speed. Lets see what this horrendous 7 metre difference represents:
Eagle F1 Assymetric 2: 44 metres
Falken FK453: 49 metres
So it's only 2 metres more than the difference between an Eagle F1 and the Falkens half the internet bang on about it. And unlike the Falkens, which are pretty much always that much worse than an Eagle F1, the UHP summer tyre is only that bad when i gets really cold, during which time most sensible drivers are already taking it pretty easy..
But whats this? Some more data?
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Auto-Bild-42-Winter-Tyre-Braking-Test.htm
Interesting..
Continental WinterContact TS 850 stopped in 41.2 metres in the wet.
So really it's up for debate whether winter tyres even stop better in the wet - seems it depends on which test you read as to whether they do!
Lets read on.
Fancy that.
Dry tests next..
But more importantly..
Sounds great, doesn't it? What it shows is that its a real mixed bag and it's nothing like as clear cut as the 'Under 7c thats it, winters are loads better' that everyone seems to preach.
Basically, it tells us that:
a) In snow, summer tyres are crap. Winter tyres are far better
b) In the wet, summer tyres increase braking distance by a bit but are much better at aquaplane resistence
c) In the dry, summer tyres are noticeably superior and have dramatically better feel and poise
In summary then, winter tyres are something you fit only if you *NEED* them. You live in Norway. You need them. I live in Devon. I don't need them, I need a decent UHP tyre. Which is what I fit.
There is absolutely NO co-incidence to be found in the fact that before the couple of freak winters we had in 2009/2010, tyre companies didn't even bother marketing these tyres over here. Because they are for climates that are far more wintry than hours. When it snows in Norway, it is not the lead item on the evening news. Whereas it is in England, which shows you how much of a rare weather event it really is.
Go and tell somebody in Canada about how badly it snows here and they'll die laughing at you. Proper winter conditions, for which winter tyres are essential, involve snow which falls in November and finally gets lost again in April. Thaw in January is unheard of.
I don't. I live in the South West of England. Only this week has it even dipped below 10c during the day. There is no snow here - there almost never is. Even with the big weather warning for Friday, it stops short of where I live. So no, I wont be rushing out to buy a crappy set of steel wheels to join the winter tyre bandwagon that seeminingly only started rolling 4 years ago. And never once in 10 years have I ever had a moment where I thought 'I should change these tyres' so I'm certainly not going to blow a pile of cash and make my car look crap for 3 months of the year just to join the 'lets pretend we have a proper winter climate' bandwagon.
Your evo links are interesting. I suggest you read them yourself because these are interesting excerpts:
That sounds terrible, doesn't it, the way they've potrayed it. But really 7 metres is the sort of distance you'd use to chose one tyre over another when buying but not to completely change a tyre type, downgrade your alloys and keep a spare set of wheels for, is it? More than 7m seperates the pack in performnace summer tyre tests, for example. And thats 7m between the BEST winter tyre and the summer tyre. It'll be less with the others.
Infact, last year there was a big wet braking test in non-winter conditions. It involved braking in the wet from a similar speed. Lets see what this horrendous 7 metre difference represents:
Eagle F1 Assymetric 2: 44 metres
Falken FK453: 49 metres
So it's only 2 metres more than the difference between an Eagle F1 and the Falkens half the internet bang on about it. And unlike the Falkens, which are pretty much always that much worse than an Eagle F1, the UHP summer tyre is only that bad when i gets really cold, during which time most sensible drivers are already taking it pretty easy..
But whats this? Some more data?
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Auto-Bild-42-Winter-Tyre-Braking-Test.htm
Interesting..
Continental WinterContact TS 850 stopped in 41.2 metres in the wet.
So really it's up for debate whether winter tyres even stop better in the wet - seems it depends on which test you read as to whether they do!
Lets read on.
Fancy that.
Dry tests next..
But more importantly..
Sounds great, doesn't it? What it shows is that its a real mixed bag and it's nothing like as clear cut as the 'Under 7c thats it, winters are loads better' that everyone seems to preach.
Basically, it tells us that:
a) In snow, summer tyres are crap. Winter tyres are far better
b) In the wet, summer tyres increase braking distance by a bit but are much better at aquaplane resistence
c) In the dry, summer tyres are noticeably superior and have dramatically better feel and poise
In summary then, winter tyres are something you fit only if you *NEED* them. You live in Norway. You need them. I live in Devon. I don't need them, I need a decent UHP tyre. Which is what I fit.
There is absolutely NO co-incidence to be found in the fact that before the couple of freak winters we had in 2009/2010, tyre companies didn't even bother marketing these tyres over here. Because they are for climates that are far more wintry than hours. When it snows in Norway, it is not the lead item on the evening news. Whereas it is in England, which shows you how much of a rare weather event it really is.
Go and tell somebody in Canada about how badly it snows here and they'll die laughing at you. Proper winter conditions, for which winter tyres are essential, involve snow which falls in November and finally gets lost again in April. Thaw in January is unheard of.
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Agree 100% which is why in an earlier post I said...
I think this is a significant problem in the UK. I guess the sort of people who fit winter linglongs would also have summer linglongs so they're still doing something vaguely useful. But I'd wager there are a lot of people with, say, new cars that had decent summer tyres out of the factory fitting winter linglongs thinking they are doing a good thing, but they're very wrong.
[TW]Fox;23572505 said:
As I said in other thread, when AM got his SuperSports fitted even the tyre fitter said the Conti3 and MPSS Summer tyres give more grip even over the big brands Winter tyres down to approx -5c in dry and wet conditions.
The best winter tyres really only give an advantage over best Summer tyres when it gets extremely cold and of course they work far better on and ice and snowed compared to any Summer tyre.
Then cheap winter tyres in my view are dangerous, they typically offer terrible wet performance which is what the UK generally is, very wet.
Even if they are swapping cheap tat for cheap winter tat, there is still a high chance that the winter tyres people are fitting are worse at everything other than snow driving and maybe very cold wet braking than the tyres they have removed.
Its a marketing opportunity seized by the tyre companies after we got a bit of snow, and its worked like a charm. All these people banging on about the 7c thing or just spending every waking moment defending running steelies with winter tyres on from October to April are either unaware they have been conned, or to proud to admit it.
I wonder how many of them fitted winter tyres pre 2009? I wonder how many of them even knew winter tyres existed back then?
going by that logic they've cost me hardly the cost of crashing because ive had the same van for over 2 year and plan on keeping it for longer
oh wait, our winters seem to be a lot worse than 5+ years ago..
and for me personally ive moved to a part of the country that is colder than parts of scotland over winter and we expect bad winters every year.. if you live in london i'd say its idiotic to buy snow tyres if you only plan on staying and driving around london all year round..
to make such a general sweeping statement is wrong..