Associate
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Didn't know Obama posted on these boards
David Cameron's speech on Europe
- Thread starter Irish_Tom
- Start date
Didn't know Obama posted on these boards
Caporegime
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A decision should be made by an independent body who has access to all the facts and can weight up what is in the UK's best interests as a whole.
So would these fine upstanding politicians have attempted to renegotiate for such a better deal if they had got a "Yes" vote first time around? Of course not because the agenda was go to avoid a "No" vote at all costs. Nothing to do with negotiating a better deal it was all about ratifying the treaty.
+1.
Genuine question, why specifically do you you "want out"?.
I want examples please.
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We're not a puppet for the US, but to deny we don't have an interest in keeping the US on side is foolish, there's a lot of Anglo American relations that benefit us both.
'The relationship could be better with Europe' has been the status-quo since 1957.
What like a European Parliament sub-committee? I hear they have our best interests at heart.
Why can the EU keep coming back to keep thier little empire together but the UK govs can't that's against my human rights
Oh and stop calling me Shirley
What the actual **** are you on about?
If the Irish had voted yes first time round they would have accepted the terms, why would they then try to renegotiate them? Either you accept or you don't, if you don't try and get a better deal.
Soldato
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I dont want to leave europe, im happy with our own currency though and some of the rules we have to follow are a bit daft so im all for trying to change the rules in our favour a bit more (seeing as europe is changing a bit as well)
HOWEVER
Referendum is a bad idea, all the people I hear moaning about Europe are full of uninformed guff about "immigrants stealing our jobs / getting £100000 in benifits a year and a car and a phone and a house withing 10 mins of arriving in the UK" type stuff they have read in a rubbish newspaper, I dont think such an important thing should be left to idiots
it would be an insane gamble to up sticks and leave, we could be completely isolated from the world economy overnight, and people who say we should just worry about ourselves and that we can sustain our own buisness inside the country are living in the 1950's still
edit : im glad this sidelines UKIP though, I compleletly disagree with just about every word out of Farages gob!
HOWEVER
Referendum is a bad idea, all the people I hear moaning about Europe are full of uninformed guff about "immigrants stealing our jobs / getting £100000 in benifits a year and a car and a phone and a house withing 10 mins of arriving in the UK" type stuff they have read in a rubbish newspaper, I dont think such an important thing should be left to idiots
it would be an insane gamble to up sticks and leave, we could be completely isolated from the world economy overnight, and people who say we should just worry about ourselves and that we can sustain our own buisness inside the country are living in the 1950's still
edit : im glad this sidelines UKIP though, I compleletly disagree with just about every word out of Farages gob!
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What a non promise.
IF we can negotiate new terms
IF the conservatives win a majority, then in 2017 there will be a referendum where the PM will campaign for yes.
If labour commit to a referendum they will win the next election hands down
IF we can negotiate new terms
IF the conservatives win a majority, then in 2017 there will be a referendum where the PM will campaign for yes.
If labour commit to a referendum they will win the next election hands down
Oh and what Anglo-American relations are those then? They say bend over and we say 'as you like sir'. Give me one good example of the US extending the hand of friendship to Britain in the last 40 years and I will give you a gold bar.
Put the daily braille down.
Soldato
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But your happy to allow the same people to elect the government in the UK?
Just saying since the vast majority of those I speak to who have little idea of really what makes an economy work are of a "left leaning" persuasion, with an entitlement view. Don't get me wrong its by no means one sided, but generally those who seem utterly clueless/porly educated will be Labour voters...
Personally I am really 50/50 on in or out.
I see advantages and disadvantages in both.
Looking forwards the value of the EU could rise or fall for a member state. In my opinion its actually out of the control of the EU how much "power" they will in fact have globally, and far more in the hands of China and India and the rest of the developing nations, how fast and how well they develop.
The EU is generally a more socialist leaning organisation, thats fine when your at the top, but once you get knocked off the top its harder to sustain that view on what you want to do. The EU has clearly caused issues within the EU for business taxation and avoidance. It has done good things for workers rights and IMO is actaully part of the reason for the decline in trade unions, why do we really need trade unions now when the same sort of things trade unions aim to progress are being done by default by the EU.
You're kidding, right? Ed Miliband win anythihng?
No, I dislike that also (I'd prefer a technocracy) - but at least the government (on average) are a little more informed than Joe public.
Besides, a functional democracy is reliant on having an intelligent, informed & engaged population.
I've got a feeling be could have the best manifesto in the world & still not win.
I'd wager Labour are playing the long game & will replace him with somebody more charismatic in the lead up to the election - somebody who neither tarnished by Labours past or suffered many setbacks in the opposition.
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Soldato
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I think what gets most peoples backs up about the repeated yes/no votes for the EU (I worked with both Dutch and Irish when the respective votes were happening) that went on were that you were being asked to sign up for ever. So if you say no you get asked again, then again repeat indefinately, potentially.
Thats not democracy where the people actually control the power. It WOULD be democracy if it needed to be confirmed at regular intervals, say every 25 years.
Saying YES once and then never being able to change your mind again is NOT democracy.
Ask the same question over and over enough times to an ever changing group in ever changing circumstances and sooner or later you will get the response you want.
Thats not democracy where the people actually control the power. It WOULD be democracy if it needed to be confirmed at regular intervals, say every 25 years.
Saying YES once and then never being able to change your mind again is NOT democracy.
Ask the same question over and over enough times to an ever changing group in ever changing circumstances and sooner or later you will get the response you want.
Probably because whilst it does legislate workers rights, it doesn't actually "fight for the little guy". It's all well and good having a court to go to but in practice it takes months if not years, and does little to stop employers trampling all over workers rights. I dislike the way unions often handle themselves but they do far more for workers on a day to day basis than a court in Brussels.
Thats almost certainly going to be Alex Salmonds approach
.